Tom DuFore: 0:01

Welcome to the Multiply your Success podcast, where each week, we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, tom Dufour, ceo of Big Sky Franchise Team, and as we open today, I'm wondering if you are having, or have had trouble recruiting and retaining quality staff and team members, and if you're like most people I've met, especially most business owners and leaders I've met with and worked with. It's a really common challenge that many face, and we do as well in our own business. Well, our guest today is Andrea Hoffer, and she shares with us her dream framework to help franchisees and franchisors, as well as small businesses, improve their hiring efforts.

Tom DuFore: 0:49

Now, andrea is an experienced talent acquisition and management strategist and former franchisee. She was a multi-unit franchisee. She's the founder of AHA Talent Experts and has helped businesses nationwide improve their recruitment efforts, aligning with their hiring and company culture and developing employer brands that attract top talents. She draws from her over 30 years in recruitment and just under two decades as a successful business owner. You're going to love this interview, so let's go ahead and jump right into it.

Andrea Hoffer: 1:20

Thanks, Tom. My name's Andrea Hoffer. My title is CEO and founder of AHA Talent Experts.

Tom DuFore: 1:28

As we were talking pre-show and just getting into this part of our conversation is really geared toward what you do professionally with your organization and helping recruit and helping especially folks in the franchise business recruit. So I'd love for you to just talk about maybe a little bit of your own experience recruiting that led you to down this pathway to wanting to help others.

Andrea Hoffer: 1:53

Sure, and it didn't come from me being in a recruitment firm. It came because I was a franchisee. I owned Massage MV Spa and prior to that just briefly I had been working on college campuses and I had lots of teams of hourly employees and professional teams as well, and I had learned the right way to hire and onboard. But one day I'm in my spot and I'm like why am I having all of this turnover? I had just gotten into the nitty gritty right Once it's your business and it's open and you're just kind of following your tail. You don't know what you know, at least for me anyway. So one day I'm like I know how to hire effectively, why am I just taking whoever walks in the door and can sell me a pen? Because that was kind of what we learned to do from the franchise at the time.

Andrea Hoffer: 2:52

So I took a step back and I started to think about all the things I had done in the past and what were best practices for hiring, specifically when it came to hourly teams, and did a lot of research and created some different programs for my spot and I started getting some amazing results, to the point where other franchisees were asking me what I was doing and I had this little consulting company called A Aha on the side. It was just sort of for fun a little bit, you know, but but other businesses started asking through Aha can you, can you help us with this? And that's that's how Aha started becoming more about talent acquisition and onboarding, specifically in that, the hourly space. And when I sold my spot in 2016, I decided to just go full force with a hug that this was really where my passion and my motivation was.

Tom DuFore: 3:58

I think it's really interesting. I always like when we have guests on the show that have a background in franchising and having been a franchisee yourself and I can relate I've been a multi-unit franchisee as well and there's just an interesting dynamic and relational dynamic between franchisees and franchisors. There's kind of this tension that exists that everyone in franchising understands. It's hard to describe if you have not been through that on either side for sure, and it's not saying it's good or bad, it's just it exists. It's just something that's there. And I really like how you've looked at your own business model and say what can I do for my own recruiting retention? How can I go through that? And, as I understand, you've created this kind of dream acronym concept. So I'd love for you to talk about maybe some of the methodologies or systems that you've developed that worked in your business and that you've seen work across other businesses as well.

Andrea Hoffer: 4:57

Sure, and just to mention first that the dream framework is sort of a rebirth of my HIRE framework, which was in my book that I published a couple of years ago, and DREAM. It takes you through five steps. I realized after years of working with franchisees and other business owners that the steps we were taking everybody through and making sure we were hitting certain things actually fit with the acronym of DREAM, and we had already started saying our tagline is we build dream teams. So it was a dream how it came about. But we first focus on that D that define stage, and that's where I see a lot of business owners, even franchisors, fall down. And that's that discovery phase. That's learning about within yourself. You know who is successful with your brand. What do you have to offer as an employer and with each position, what do you have to offer as an employer and with each position, what are those success traits, what are those characteristics that would make somebody successful and happy in that role? For example, we've been working more recently with a multi-unit franchisee of Nothing but Cakes and one of their roles. You know they have a lot of different roles related to baking and frosting and they get all of these applicants from people who love to bake and love to be creative in the baking piece. But to be successful in those roles they need to know how to follow direction step by step and not add that creativity. So getting very clear on that, because somebody who loves to bake and thinks this is their dream job is going to learn very quickly that they hate it, so they probably wouldn't be successful. So if you can get clear on that and then take that to the R stage, which is reach and that's where we talk about recruitment, marketing and how you reach and nurture that potential candidate pool and a lot of it is through social media, but it also can be local to your surroundings. So those are the two areas we spend a lot of time on in the beginning in the beginning and then the other ones come a little more smoothly if we got especially the D right engaged. What is that candidate experience like?

Andrea Hoffer: 7:33

Often comes to that tech stack you have and you know it's funny with franchisors often not always, but often the franchisor will highly recommend a specific applicant tracking system, a certain software and I've seen certain brands where which is great I think it's very good, because when I was a franchisee nobody had an ATS. We didn't. They didn't. You know, we did everything paper. So I'm glad to see the franchises are moving in. You know the more modern direction or have already moved there. But often the franchisees don't know how to use the ATS effectively and I've had talent leaders of franchisors tell me I spend 50% of my time fielding phone calls from franchisees who can't figure out how to use the ATS. So that's where we often will come in and we'll build it so it's streamlined and we help maintain it for them as well, so that they're using it effectively but also helping the candidate to have a much better experience.

Andrea Hoffer: 8:47

And then you get into the assess how to interview. You know a lot of franchisees and store managers, the hiring people, the ones that actually are never taught how to hire effectively we're always talking about that. And of course, the M which is motivate we're always talking about that. And of course the M which is motivate it's you know hiring isn't done once they sign on, as a lot of us know. We see a lot of ghosting or they don't. You know, even last 30 days. And that's not all on the candidates, that's on the franchisee or the business owner or the leader of that location as well, so helping them learn how to motivate and inspire the team. So that's the dream framework in a nutshell, and there's so many parts under each of those letters, but even if you just hit on all of them just a little bit, you'd be amazed at the you know the increase in the results that you got.

Tom DuFore: 9:51

And that first letter D was define. Was that the word you used?

Andrea Hoffer: 9:55

Yes, define. We have a 90-minute discovery session. That's under the define stage and that's where we're asking for a lot of stories. You know, what is it? Tell me about your very successful employee, you know, and maybe it's a role, let's say, a front desk role for a spa. I'm just going to use my experience in you know, give me a story of somebody who you just would love to hire 50 of them and I just want you to think about one day that really stands in your mind, of something they did.

Andrea Hoffer: 10:35

And so the more we ask those stories and we ask, you know, the negative to somebody maybe who's no longer on your team, who you don't you know, who wasn't successful, the more we can get those stories from them, the more clearly we can define who they're looking for, who they're not looking for, who they're looking for, who they're not looking for and then how to authentically showcase that to the world so that you're attracting the right people. And AI has helped a lot. It's really transformed my business over the last couple of years. I've gotten certified in several different AI certifications and we've integrated into everything we do and even our simple discovery session. We record and we can slice and dice that information so quick and make it into some tremendous marketing materials specifically for recruiting some tremendous marketing materials specifically for recruiting Very, very good.

Tom DuFore: 11:39

Well, and I would imagine, define is. It just kind of sticks out in my mind. It's something that I've seen others go through clients I've worked with, even in my own business I am just as guilty as the next in thinking about defining the role. What are we actually hiring for, instead of saying, oh, here's someone we think can do what we think they need to do, right, I know I've done that and, generally speaking, it does not work out for either party involved, and so I think that's a really, really great first step right To find what in the world you're hiring for, or the skills needed or the duties and tasks that need to get done.

Andrea Hoffer: 12:15

Yeah, and actually I often just say what are the results you need done In two weeks, if this person is successful, what results are you going to see? And then in 30 days, in 60 days, 90 days? And the more you focus on the results that you're looking for, the easier it will be to define what you need. And then the tasks come later. You know how do you get to this result? Well, they do this, this and this.

Tom DuFore: 12:43

Andrea, we work with successful entrepreneurs and help them franchise their businesses and we also work with franchisors. And so what is something that you might suggest or recommend, or maybe a few things you might say to either that soon-to-be franchisor or that current franchisor, for maybe some ways to support their franchisees in these types of initiatives? And certainly we recognize that the franchisor kind of has their hands tied a little bit in terms of what they're able to do. But recognizing you understand some of those nuances, what are some things that a franchisor kind of has their hands tied a little bit in terms of what they're able to do, but recognizing you understand some of those nuances, what are some things that a franchisor might be able to do to support their franchisees?

Andrea Hoffer: 13:23

So glad you asked this question. I never get asked this and I think, like you said, the franchisor, especially when they're first starting out, they have so many things they're juggling and they're really focused on the marketing to drive customers to their franchisee doors, right? One thing that is going to become very important either right away or pretty soon after is are there going to be enough good team members at the locations to support all that traffic and customers that are driving towards there? And that's where I've seen some franchises really fall down. If I was to have an ideal world, then I could tell all the franchisors what I think is best and of course, I'm coming from that hiring hat, right, I would love to see franchisors truly focus on that employer brand, helping their franchisees figure out that DE part pretty early on. Now, each one is going to be a little different by the owners, right. They're going to bring a certain different culture to each of their locations or multiple locations, but overall the roles are similar. So the roles are going to have very similar, the same success traits. But also, just being a member of that brand, no matter what your job is, there's some status to it and there's some there's a lot of benefit to it and I would love to see some franchisors step into that and, you know, go for being that employer of choice.

Andrea Hoffer: 15:02

Do videos of what it's like to work at the different brands and what your team gets out of it. Do recruiting marketing campaigns constantly. I'm not saying you know, I have seen franchisors who will do. You know they'll hire a company and do a one-time campaign and they might showcase it at their annual conference, but I haven't seen it as an ongoing initiative and I truly believe that this is especially now. But I believe it's important if they're going to keep growing their locations, because you can't grow without the people You're talking about businesses that our customer are facing. Thank goodness that we still have some right and I believe that these entry-level positions should be a requirement of every new person who's entering the workforce, that they should start here. So let's show them why it's so amazing and why it's so important for their future career and get people into the right brands for them.

Tom DuFore: 16:15

I think that's very well said and it's something that I think of these customer facing roles. Certainly people naturally will think of things like food service and hospitality, but my mind immediately goes to because this was the franchise I was involved with was a home services brand and we had technicians that we had to recruit and it was an industry where they would come and go pretty frequently and they just kind of bounced from one company to the next and home services has been the number one franchise category for the last few years and those roles are going to continue to be needed. So I think your point is well taken that helping create a little bit of I like how you described it status and building a brand reputation around this is a whether it's fun, interesting, exciting, dynamic, flexible some kind of key buzzwords that would attract the kinds of people that would come and work part-time or as an assistant manager or whatever kind of roles they're recruiting for.

Andrea Hoffer: 17:17

And I'm glad you mentioned home services. We actually worked for the last couple of years with a window treatment company that services eight areas and it's not a franchise. They're planning on franchising in the future, so I'll have to give them your number. One of the things they know they need to work out as kinks before they franchise is not just the hiring, which you know. We set up a hiring process for them using Workable as of window treatment, but anybody out in the field could talk to Windy on the phone and ask it a question, and all of the training materials are in Windy so they can get it very quickly. And I think that's also a big part of keeping your team, because people like to feel successful and the easier you can make it for them to be successful, the more they're going to stay with you.

Tom DuFore: 18:23

As someone might be listening into this, I might be thinking well, this sounds great, I'd like to learn more, maybe ask some specific questions about my company or needs that I might have. How can someone reach out to you or get connected?

Andrea Hoffer: 18:34

I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so definitely connect with me on LinkedIn, you can, but you can also go to my website at aha A-H-A talent experts with an S dot com, all one word. And if you're looking for me on LinkedIn, it's Andrea Hoffer is my. I don't know if you call it a handle, but yeah, I'm sure you'll find me.

Tom DuFore: 18:57

Excellent. Well, we'll make sure we include those links in the show notes here. And, Andrea, this is a great time in the show and we make a transition and we asked every guest the same four questions before they go. And the first question we ask is have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?

Andrea Hoffer: 19:16

Of course I've had lots of misses on my journey, but I am I guess I'll mention the one that comes up for me quite recently a lot, and that was a couple of years ago. I decided to buy a software company. It was in the recruiting area. What was happening was we were spending so much in third-party softwares that I always had this dream to build my own. And then I found this software company for sale that did a lot of the features we were using with our clients and so I bought the software company, not knowing anything about running a software. So basically it failed because not because we didn't have the customers, but because we had to take all of our customers off of it because there were so many bugs and we just lost so much money trying to fix the bugs.

Andrea Hoffer: 20:13

So that was probably so I but I learned, because I know you want to know what I learned. You know I learned to be more careful about jumping in to those things. But I can tell you that whole journey because I owned a little over a year. I learned a lot about software and how that fits into the recruitment process, so that now when I'm actually working with other software companies, I know what to look for and I know what to ask for. So I do feel like, while it was an expensive lesson, I learned a lot that will help me in the future.

Tom DuFore: 20:50

Let's look at the flip side of that and talk about a make or a highlight or two you'd like to share the process we've been using with clients for years and put it into that dream framework.

Andrea Hoffer: 21:17

For me, that has just been such a great win, because it makes it so much easier to explain what we do and I feel like it brings so much more value to our clients and to the information that we put out there.

Tom DuFore: 21:32

The next question we ask is have you used a multiplier to help you grow personally, professionally or any of the organizations you've run?

Andrea Hoffer: 21:41

There are so many ways I think you can define multiplier. I have had lots of different coaches and I would call that a multiplier. The one that I've been in most recently is Pinnacle Global Network. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. Alison Maslin that I've been a member for eight years and just having that high level of masterminding and coaching and just incredible learning has been a multiplier for me.

Tom DuFore: 22:13

And the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

Andrea Hoffer: 22:18

To me, it means doing what I love. I just love what I do. I love seeing results for my clients. And you know I'll say years ago I had a client say to me and it was the first time I even thought about it or heard somebody say it and she's like, andrea, you have helped me fall back in love with my business. She's like I was ready to just walk away from it and now I just love it again and to me that's success to be able to do something I love to help others love their business again.

Tom DuFore: 22:58

Andrea, thank you so much for a fantastic interview, and let's go ahead and jump into today's three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is her dream framework, and it starts with the letter D, which is define, and you need to define what the success traits are. What's going to make someone successful in this role and what role are you hiring for? R stands for recruitment, marketing, E stands for engage, A stands for assess and M stands for motivate, and I think that's a nice quick summary. Doing all five of those will help you be successful in your recruiting efforts. Takeaway number two is what franchisors can do to help their franchisees, and I like what she said is that the franchisor should be focused on developing a brand employees want to come work for, meaning that this brand that the franchisor creates will attract employees and new hires. It makes the franchisee's job a lot easier.

Tom DuFore: 24:02

Takeaway number three is when she talked about a miss that she had when she bought that software company and I found it interesting how she really turned lemons into lemonade where it just did not go as planned. She really turned lemons into lemonade where it just did not go as planned. It was a very expensive lesson to be learned, but she learned a lot about technology, how to use it, how to better serve clients in that category, in that space, and for how to better utilize technology in her own business. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win really comes from Andrea's experience in launching and building her solution for hiring, and she developed this really from being a franchisee and having a need or a problem that she ended up solving. And when she started getting results from the solution she created, others started reaching out to say how can we do this? And then she grew it and I just think that's a great win-win.

Tom DuFore: 25:04

It's just a constant reminder that even if you're a franchisee in big franchise systems, there are still things that you can do to improve, to come up with better ways or newer ways of doing things to help your own local franchises that you own. And this is a reminder for the franchisors that are tuning in to pay attention to what some of your franchisees are doing, to listen to them, to ask questions to get ideas solutions, them to ask questions to get ideas solutions. Chances are, if there's a problem with one franchisee or a common problem you're seeing with many franchisees, there are solutions within your network that other franchisees have already figured out, so I think that's the win-win to try to continue to improve the connection and communication and relations between the franchisor and the franchisee. That's the episode today.

Tom DuFore: 25:59

Folks, Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review and remember if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level. Please connect with us at BigSkyFranchiseTeamcom. Thanks for tuning in and we look forward to having you back next week.