Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Multiply your Success podcast, where, each week, we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, tom Dufour, ceo of Big Sky Franchise Team, and as we open today, I'm wondering how your employees and franchisees manage or deal with changes that you implement at your organization. Do they dread it? Do they revolt? Do they organization? Do they dread it? Do they revolt? Do they complain? Do they embrace it?

Speaker 1: 0:28

Well, our guest today is Dr Elizabeth Moran, who is a neuroscience and change management expert, and she shares with us some practical tips and ideas on how to implement and improve your change management efforts. Now, dr Moran is an experienced leader, coach and consultant in providing neuroscience-based guidance to successfully navigate change. Partnering with business leaders from Fortune 500 companies to smaller startups, she has successfully supported large and small-scale transformation efforts through practical advice and actions to make change management more quote, manageable, unquote. She authored the Amazon bestselling book Forward Leading your Team Through Change, making her practical approach accessible to all people and all types of leaders globally. You're going to love this interview, so let's go ahead and jump right into it.

Speaker 2: 1:22

I'm Dr Elizabeth Moran. I am the founder of Elizabeth Moran Transformation.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Wonderful. Well, transformation is a great word to help springboard into the conversation because really you're dialed into this idea of neuroscience and change and leadership and talking through that. So just to open things up and jump right into the thick of some of this, is we start thinking about changing in this concept of forward change, as you've described in some of your pre-show material here. What makes your forward change approach more manageable for some of this change management than maybe others? So, thank you so much for that question.

Speaker 2: 2:03

There is so much great literature and work out there. I've been a complete nerd when it comes to change for a long time probably, like you know, we were talking about 20 years and it was always something I kind of did on the side. But every time I would you know, was inside organizations. A leader would want to make a change or the group would want to make a change for a very good reason. They knew they had to do something different when they were leading humans through change, but it seemed very overwhelming and unstructured. So what I did was I looked and I'd studied a lot of the literature Cotter Dave Potruck, stacking the Deck, another one called the Technology Fallacy so there's no shortage of material.

Speaker 2: 2:41

What's very hard for leaders, as many of them were doing this off the side of their desk. They didn't have a separate change management function and even if they did, oftentimes it was focused on the project aspects. So my uniqueness was I would titrate it down actually with the business leaders what are the key essentials you probably should do that will help your people, leaders and those who work for them implement the change and what are those basics? And then the emotional side, which is really where, why I wrote the book. It was more of a focus on that, which is how do you understand and that's where some of the neuroscience comes in why people react the way they do.

Speaker 2: 3:24

This isn't an excuse. It's not to give people a pass. It's simply that you, as a leader, when you understand these natural workings of these human beings these pesky humans, as we like to say sometimes the actions that you can take are more likely to get you a positive result Really. And the positive result is if you have a change where you need people to behave differently than how they are doing currently, then there are some things you have to do that will make it more likely for them to actually do that sooner rather than later.

Speaker 1: 3:59

That kind of leads into the next thought, and maybe this should have been the first question. But when I start thinking about change in an organization, why is it that folks do struggle with change? You have the staff or the team that's changing, but in addition, we see leaders struggle with that. Myself included, I am definitely falling to struggling with leading through change. So what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 4:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:23

So let me ask you a question when do you think change is? A good idea. Change, in my experience, often comes as a necessity or a felt necessity, where it either feels like it must happen or there's a needed change, market conditions, right, extremes, or even small changes, even just changes in staff right. Sometimes staff leave and now it's like, oh boy, we've got to change departments or shake up staffing. So oftentimes it comes out of some either felt need, real or perceived, but either way it's real to the leader at that time.

Speaker 2: 4:57

Yes. So those are all amazing answers and wonderful. Change is a good idea when it's your idea. And this goes back to your question why do people resist change? Right, because typically in most organizations and same thing in the franchise business you could have the owner of the franchise who says I want to make a change. They consider different options, they have time to do that, they look at different directions and so by the time they decide to make the change, they're already on board. When they announce it, they forget that nobody else is actually on board because nobody else has heard this before.

Speaker 2: 5:34

But this is how most change happens A small group of people decides to go in a certain direction and then the other people leaders and teams have to implement it, but it's not their idea. I mean, even when change is your idea, it can be really tough, as you know, right. So we typically do better if we are in control, right, and when we talk about most people resist, there's the instantaneous thing that what's the first question you think somebody has when they hear about a change? A change gets announced. Where do you think their brain goes?

Speaker 1: 6:10

I'm sure either they're saying well, why? Why do we have to change? Or how does this impact me?

Speaker 2: 6:16

See, you're already a change expert and the thing. We know this Honestly. I've asked that question, Tom, to a number of people and everybody gets the answer right. Which is what does it mean for me? And yet, when it comes to implementing a change, all that goes out the window. Their brains start to work on all the details, and then it's usually the human side or the why. So most of the time, when leaders announce a change, they announce the what's changing and sometimes they'll get into the benefits. Here's what we're trying to achieve greater efficiency, greater client experience, you know whatever it is. But there's that whole middle piece. Well, why are we changing? What happens if we don't change? And what is it I'm going to be moving from and moving to? That's the part that often gets left out. And so it's not that when you announce a change, that most people right away unless you're like we're just going to give you a lot of money, right? Other than that, right, Most people are not going to be pleased or they're going to have some form of caution. The first favor that leaders can actually do for themselves or franchise owners is stop looking at that as a problem.

Speaker 2: 7:32

That is neuroscience. It is normal when something changes in our environment, and especially if I think you're messing with my livelihood, which is connected to my survival. Right, this is where the ego goes, and this is one of the neuroscience concepts I talk about is negativity bias. What we know is that our brains give at least and I really think it's at least three times more psychological weight to the negative than the positive. However, the brain is an organ of the past, so the only negative it's pulling up is all the terrible experiences where they've been screwed over or had problems or lost something that mattered to them.

Speaker 2: 8:10

When there was a change. Loss can be something of a sense of mastery. Right, I knew how to do it this way. Now you're doing a different technology system. You're asking me to be a beginner again. I don't like that. Right, my ego is invested, for good reason, at being a master, and so the thing with the negativity bias is we're not only oftentimes dealing with the change that's happening. Now the person is going to all of that. Why? Because our ego, connected to our reptilian brain, is trying to keep us alive. So any change. It sounds sophisticated, but in the ego's very rational way of working things out, you're going to change this on me, I'm not going to be good at it, I'm going to be fired, I'm destitute, I'm dead.

Speaker 2: 8:55

The ego is always a zero-sum game. It's death. There is fear and death. And listen, we want the ego exactly as it is in that 0.0002% of the time when our life literally is in danger. That's the only time. So when leaders understand that that's a normal reaction, there are things they can do to provide people information. So happiness is not a great measure oftentimes of success. Clarity is Are we clear what we know now and what we don't know now? And then the other piece is just simply, sometimes people just need a couple of days or a couple of weeks to just adjust. So it's that expectation that people are going to be like yeah, you know, no, probably not.

Speaker 1: 9:46

How can leaders use understanding some of the neuroscience to help implement and you shared a little bit about it, but maybe just a little more detail how they might be able to use neuroscience to help overcome some of that natural resistance that might come along, or maybe even reduce it by maybe having some I don't want to call it preventative measures, but maybe some pre-op type of work that they might be able to do when they start executing on these changes?

Speaker 2: 10:15

You know. So, first of all, thank you for your questions, tom. They're really, they're very thoughtful. So the first thing a leader can do is start with yourself, right. First of all, if you can shift your mindset, there's a couple of simple brain hacks, or little hacks, that can help. The first thing is, if I shift my perspective from resistance is a problem to resistance are simply concerns that haven't been addressed yet, and you can even feel, if you just imagine that you're in that state, it's very hard to be in frustration and curiosity at the same time. So that's the first thing you can do is stop acting like it's a problem. It's not a permanent state, right? So that's different. You know, resistance is normal. It's not a permanent state, and we can talk more about that.

Speaker 2: 11:04

But the first thing is start with yourself. Drop the frustration, accept this, that people will need time. That's one. The preventative thing is an interesting one. The answer is yes and no. No meaning we can never control how anybody's going to react. Right, and again, you could do all the things perfectly and people are still going to be upset, and that's okay. Then it's like ah, okay, you're upset. Help me understand. What is it you're hearing, or what is it about this change that's troubling for you? So using that as a conversation starter and stop looking at it as people are in my way, all right, so that is. Those are a couple of things people can do.

Speaker 2: 11:47

The other thing is is taking some time, and so I have three priorities when it comes to leading change. News thing is is taking some time, and so I have three priorities when it comes to leading change Newsflash. This isn't new. Okay, these are things that I've just tried to repackage. So compassion, communication and clarity are the three things from which action comes. So, from a compassion perspective, thinking in advance, if I'm in Tom's shoes, I'm going to announce this change and I'm in Tom's shoes, how might Tom react? What might Tom be losing or fear that he's going to lose? How do I help Tom understand how he's connected to the change, to use those in the future state? It's just taking a couple of minutes and thinking about it and then being prepared.

Speaker 2: 12:33

So one, if somebody does have a negative reaction, it doesn't throw you all off. You're just like oh yeah, it's normal. It's actually very generous to let people have their reaction. It's okay, you don't have to react, you don't have to argue with it. And then the second thing is how can I provide them with as much information as possible? Because that's the second neuroscience concept is uncertainty. Our brains hate that more than anything. Why? Because uncertainty could equal death. Right, if I don't know, it's a surprise, it could hurt me. And remember, that's always where people are going instantaneously. We have to train ourselves out of that.

Speaker 1: 13:12

And, as you're describing that, it makes me think of some things that either I've thought I've consulted with lots of clients and companies and leaders over the years and makes me think of what others might be thinking. So I'm sure in your line of work you've run across a bunch of folks that have these, I guess, myths or preconceived ideas of what might be, and so I'd love for you to maybe talk what are some of those myths that leaders often have in regards to change.

Speaker 2: 13:43

I think the first thing is that they have to be a hundred percent on board with the change themselves to lead through it, with the change themselves to lead through it, and you don't. As a matter of fact, your concerns, your own concerns or fears, are a beautiful way to show authenticity and that people aren't alone. And so it's not like you're going to go in there and be like, oh my God, this is crazy, I can't believe our like you know, doing this change right. Like what are they thinking? No, that's not what you're doing. But when you meet with your team, when you open the door and say, listen, this change is happening. I've got some mixed feelings about it. I'd love to hear your perspective. And so there's a way in which we're going to do this. And then there is, especially if people are really struggling, knowing that you need to give them some time.

Speaker 2: 14:31

But the other thing is optimism. We don't leverage optimism enough and the neuroscience around that, and there's this myth that oh, it's just Pollyanna, you're just going to be happy, everybody's happy, everything's good. No, that's not what it is. Optimism is what we know helps free a brain that is stuck in fear or anxiety. And so what a leader can do and again, it's a thoughtful way of timing of doing that is taking time to imagine with their team what could go right here, because, remember, we've got the negativity bias, we have uncertainty, but what could go right?

Speaker 2: 15:14

This is very powerful, specifically if you've got a founder or somebody who remembers that they had a vision. They had to see that was possible, despite all of the obstacles, to keep going. And so they're using that fundamental North Star and the research tells us the more a team can share a common vision, even if it's tough right now. So what could go right? How might? Let's imagine it's a year from now and we've knocked it out of the park. What are we feeling? What are we proud of? What are some obstacles we've overcome feeling? What are we proud of? What are some obstacles we've overcome? What are we giving to our clients now that we hadn't before? What did we learn? I mean any of these things, but everybody comes together and holds a common positive vision. The neuroscience and the data says it is much more likely to happen because, ultimately, something wonderful is much more.

Speaker 1: 16:15

That's excellent. That's excellent. Well, elizabeth, as you've been sharing this and someone might be listening and say, well, she sounds great. How can someone reach out to you and find out more about what you're doing? Thank, you.

Speaker 2: 16:27

So feel free to check out elizabethmorantransformationcom or connect with me on LinkedIn. Say you heard me on this beautiful, amazing Tom's podcast, Big Sky Podcast, and then we'll go from there.

Speaker 1: 16:40

This is a great time in the show where we make a transition and we ask every guest the same four questions before they go. And the first question we ask is have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?

Speaker 2: 16:52

Yes, I have had a number of those. I've learned, ultimately, how important authenticity is and how fear fear is a lie. That's been really powerful not to give into that. It's really a choice, making a choice all the time because the ego is always jumping in. So always choosing a more hopeful because, again, I might be uncertain, something might be going wrong, but how. I might be uncertain, something might be going wrong, but how do I want to go through that experience?

Speaker 1: 17:24

Excellent. Well, let's look at the other side. How about a make or a win, a highlight or two?

Speaker 2: 17:30

Oh my gosh, one of the best things I ever did. Bitcoin, that's a win. I felt instantaneous right away. Yes, you know a bunch of years ago and I've I've loved it. To me, that represents freedom, power to the people.

Speaker 1: 17:45

Wonderful Love that. I love that. Well, let's talk about a multiplier that you've used to develop or grow yourself personally, professionally, or organizations you've run. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:56

I think for me, strengths focusing on strength. So when I was at ADP we bought the Marcus Buckingham Company, I did a little eye roll because at first I was like, oh strength, blah, blah, blah sounded like fluff, but that was very powerful, especially combined with the neuroscience. The more that people could do things, that when I say strengths, things that energize them, the better they felt, the better they were, and so for me that has just become both in my own life and the people that I work with, and for doing as much as I can to put them in their strengths as often as possible.

Speaker 1: 18:32

Excellent, and the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

Speaker 2: 18:39

Living in joy as much as possible, and that doesn't mean avoiding painful, difficult experiences. It means understanding. I have chosen this. I am a co-creator. There must be a reason. So how is this perfectly designed for my development right now? That, to me, is the path to get into joy, versus staying stuck in the fear.

Speaker 1: 19:04

And Elizabeth, as we bring this to a close, is there anything you are hoping to share or get across that you haven't had a chance to yet?

Speaker 2: 19:11

I mean the only thing is is my book Forward Leading your Team Through Change. You know it's a playbook again, so I think it's very practical if a leader is wanting to get better at this. For instance, there are scripts, conversation guides and here are the four toughest questions you might get related to a change and I script out answers to make it easier and then it's got some of that cool neuroscience very practical, easy in it. So hopefully that could be helpful for folks. And, for instance, if you've got a reader excuse me, a listener who heard this, I am happy if they share with me that they heard this in the podcast, I'm happy to give them free access to the audio book. So if they buy the book and they want free access, they can mention you to me on LinkedIn and I will give them free access to the audio book.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Elizabeth, thank you so much for a fantastic interview, and let's go ahead and jump into today's three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is when she said that change is a good idea when it's your idea, and I thought that was a great great description, because when it's your idea, you have the time to think about this and process it and oftentimes take months, or sometimes years, at least weeks, before it's implemented. And when your team finds out they're not necessarily on board yet, because they're going to ask why are we changing? What happens if we don't change? What am I changing to or moving to and from? So when they react, recognize that that's normal. Takeaway number two I like how she said this the ego is a zero-sum game. It works in fear and death. Unquote. I just thought that was a great summary.

Speaker 1: 20:57

Takeaway number three is she gave us some change myths that leaders might have and so some change. Myths are where they don't let the team know, and so she said you know, let your team know. And if you're having mixed feelings about it as well, that's okay, Share that, Let them know. And she also said it's really important to share optimism. She said that optimism helps to free a brain from being stuck in a negativity, bias or uncertainty. And so, the more you can share a goal and North Star, she said, the data shows that it is much more likely to happen. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win is when she gave us a three-word summary to help with change management implementation.

Speaker 1: 21:45

I love these three words and I love the alliteration. She said you need compassion, communication and clarity. Compassion, communication and clarity. I love that. It makes me think. Okay, compassion I'm going to think about how that other person might be feeling. Try to live, have a shared experience with that person that might be getting this news for the first time.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Communication as the leader, I'm going to communicate and hopefully over-communicate. I would guess it's probably hard to over-communicate. It's easy to under-communicate, so error on the side of over-communicating. And three is to be very, very clear Provide easy to under communicate, so error on the side of over communicating. And three is to be very, very clear provide clarity to your team. I think that was fantastic. So compassion, communication and clarity If you can do those three things, it's going to be a huge win for you and the business and getting done what you want to do, and it's a huge win for your team and your staff, because it's going to help them get on board and feel comfortable with this change sooner rather than later. And so that's the episode today. Folks, Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review and remember if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level. Please connect with us at BigSkyFranchiseTeamcom. Thanks for tuning in and we look forward to having you back next week.