Tom DuFore: 0:01

Welcome to the Multiply your Success podcast, where each week, we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, tom Dufour, ceo of Big Sky Franchise Team, and, as we open today, I'm wondering if you have a resale program in place for your franchise system? Are you discussing about an exit with your franchisees right from the beginning, right from when they sign on? Well, our guest today is Robin Gagnon, and she shares with us how having a resale strategy is not just a good idea, but it's also good business.

Tom DuFore: 0:37

Now, robin is the co-founder and CEO of we Sell Restaurants. It's a brand that's carved a niche in the industry as the world's leading and only business broker franchise focused on restaurants. Under Robin's leadership, we Sell Restaurants has grown to 45 states where it dominates the restaurant space for for sale marketplace and franchise resales, delivering on the founder's vision to sell more restaurants than anyone else. You're going to love this interview with a franchise veteran and pro and just someone who really brings a ton of business insight, so let's go ahead and jump into my interview with Robin Gagnon.

Robin Gagnon: 1:18

Robin Gagnon, CEO and co-founder of we Sell Restaurants, a restaurant brokerage brand and franchisor operating in this space for more than a decade. Thanks so much for the invitation, Tom.

Tom DuFore: 1:30

Oh, wonderful. Well, I'm so glad you're here and this has been a long time coming. I love following you. I follow you on LinkedIn and all the content you produce, and you're a great contributor to the franchise community just at large. But I'd love to take a step back, because what makes you a little unique is you sell franchises through a business brokerage and restaurants specifically and then you also are a franchise organization where you're actually selling franchises of a restaurant brokerage business. So I'd love for you to talk about what led you down this direction to end up franchising.

Robin Gagnon: 2:08

Yes great question. So initially we started like a lot of business brokerage firms, except that we really knew from the beginning our vision from day one was to sell more restaurants than anyone else, period. And we've delivered on that mission. And it was so strange because in the beginning other general business brokers were like that's so limiting, why would you do that? But what's happened over time is, when we started 22 years ago, you have to remember, people would just put the ad in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Whoever had the biggest ad, the most listings, got the most calls. But that transition to a digital online platform. So now general business brokers are working and fighting for that digital space to be known in their area and meanwhile we Sell Restaurants has captured the digital online presence of restaurants for sale.

Robin Gagnon: 3:01

So that actually turned out to be a really great marketing strategy for us and we knew from the beginning we wanted to go deep into a single vertical. We'd rather do one thing super, super well. And we started out as a general business like a lot of firms, with agents, right. So you would bring on, just like an ERA business, you'd bring on or any of the Caldwell Bank or any of the brands that are doing just real estate transactions and you have agents. What we found is agents were not loyal. You would train them and then they would turn over, and so we said there's got to be a better business model. And what is the best business model of all? You talk about multipliers in your podcast. That you do. There's nothing more than franchising is the biggest force multiplier on earth, right? And so, leveraging that, we said we are going to become a franchise and in 2012, that's exactly what we did.

Robin Gagnon: 3:58

We went to the IFA for the first time that year and I met people at IFA that year and our consultant said to us franchising is the most generous space you'll ever encounter. I came out of Fortune 100 companies. I wasn't sure what they actually meant by that and what I learned is that you could just sit down and talk to anyone, and that's really kind of been a hallmark of my career. So many people have been so generous and so giving of their time to me and to listen to my ideas and help me move forward that I really try my best ways to give back and mentor and bring other people along in franchising to whatever extent I can, and that's included volunteering for the International Franchise Association first at the local level with the Women's Franchise Network in Atlanta, then at the national level and ultimately leading the Women's Franchise Committee and now serving on the board of directors and as the chair of the Franchisor Forum. I think we all need to give back.

Tom DuFore: 4:58

I echo that sentiment. Franchising is just a unique space where people are willing to collaborate and work together, even what might appear to maybe even be competitive competitors in business, that there's much more of a community approach to it, and so that's absolutely what I've noticed, as well as when I first launched into franchising. And speaking of the International Franchise Association, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't first off congratulate you on your recent award, the Crystal Compass Award, that you were given by the International Franchise Association in February.

Robin Gagnon: 5:34

I'd love for you just to talk about the recognition is an award given by the Women's Franchise Committee of IFA, which has now been started since 1996, so has been around a very, very long time, and they give that award. They really talk about the Compass as being that North Star. You know, I served on that committee for eight years altogether and it became very near and dear to my heart to mentor and try to help grow young women in this space, all women in this space, but in particular young women who are just finding their path in franchising, and I was thrilled to receive the award because it felt like a culmination of those years of giving to others. Actually, when I did my little acceptance speech I kind of shared a little bit about how many people have given to us over the years. You know I turn to my husband at times and just say are we really grateful enough for all that franchising has given to us? Is it truly is a space where you put so much positive energy out there and that's returned so many fold back to?

Tom DuFore: 6:44

you. The work you've done is just fantastic and I should say continue to do. As someone who kind of I'm on the sidelines or in the wings watching and being a part of and seeing it. So I just see the great work you're doing and congratulations and well deserving of that award for sure. One of the things I'd love to talk about that's related to your business and it's kind of the blending of all the worlds that you're involved in with the resales as a business broker focused on restaurants and in the franchise space. As I understand, you're passionate about the power of resales in franchising and what that can do for franchise companies or other businesses just in general. So I'd love for you just to talk about what that is, what that looks like and how you're involved to support it.

Robin Gagnon: 7:32

Tom, so many brands don't really think about franchise resales as a strategy, a strategic move for the future. And so what's happening right now, demographically across America, is that we're undergoing what's known as the silver tsunami. I don't know if you've heard that language, but 10,000 baby boomers every single day are turning 65. And so then they look at, well, who is going to take over my business, what is my succession plan? And often they look to family. But young children well, they're not even young anymore, right? So the children of baby boomers are often Gen X or even millennials and they're highly educated and, honestly, often their own space. And so when mom or dad says, hey, take over the restaurant, they're like, oh no, not so much, right. So that leaves this franchise owner in a position where they're trying to figure out who's going to take over. Can I maximize value? And sometimes franchise owners don't even realize that there is residual value, that the business that they think, oh, I paid it off, it's making me some money, but the lease is over and the franchise is over. Maybe I should just, you know, shut down and meanwhile so that's the franchisee layer On the other side we have the franchisor, and the franchisor is, you know, shoveling money out the door with FranDev and bringing these new franchisees in, but those franchisees, that those would-be franchisees, live in a different pool than the ones who want a resale right.

Robin Gagnon: 9:05

We don't cross over those worlds. We don't do anything with new franchise development and we feel like it's absolutely a different customer, that customer who wants a resale. They want something open and operating. They maybe won't have the courage or sometimes the capital to start from the ground up, and so they come to us and they want something that's been open, that has cashflow, it's on the books and we can have different sorts of conversations. Then they might buy another development right, but they want to take over something that's already operating.

Robin Gagnon: 9:38

And so I really talk to franchisors and franchise communities about net restaurant growth. Be sure that as you are bringing new units in, you're not ignoring the signs that succession planning may not be taking place, because you know that item seven on your FDD is going to show the ones that are coming in and the ones that are going out, and you want to make excuse me your item 20, you want to make sure that there's a balance there. You don't want to have subtractions outnumber your additions and that's powerful and easy to do when you have a partner like we sell restaurants where we specialize in keeping those doors open, bringing new and excited franchisees in to take over existing locations.

Tom DuFore: 10:21

I'd love to dig a little deeper into this resale conversation here. So, as you work with franchisors and maybe helping establish a resale type portion of their franchise sales division or franchise sales efforts and obviously we know you're focused in on restaurants what are some steps or things that someone might be tuning in to say, well, I hadn't really thought about that. Or in our company we work, I hadn't really thought about that. Or in our company we work with organizations, we help them franchise, and so very often they're early on in the franchise growth process. They're emerging. They don't really have resales yet, but they might say that's a great idea. Robin, how can I start to be prepared or how can I start implementing this into what I'm doing today?

Robin Gagnon: 11:04

So to me, tom, it literally does start when you are beginning with those emerging brands, right as they're starting from day one, because especially emerging brands and I'm actually in the process of writing a book on this topic because I think it is so underserved in this industry but think about that emerging brand In the beginning you're relying on friends and family and your own personal Rolodex and bringing people in. Sometimes they're not the right choice for your brand and you realize that two or three years in and you're beginning to build and grow as a franchise, or so you really are not too early Start talking about resales very, very early in the game. And then, on the other hand, you have the legacy brands who are, you know, they have been established for so long and the folks have repaid their capital and made their earnings all these years, and so they just don't think about what that residual value is. So at every single level of franchising there's definitely a requirement and a need to talk about resales, and to me it starts in the culture of the company, right? I say to people sometimes that the F word in franchising is fail, and it shouldn't be. It's a reality. There are certain people who just aren't suited. Maybe not for that brand, maybe for another brand, maybe for not that time in their life, maybe at another time, or maybe they're just not financially ready, but later on they would be or could be, with some partnership or someone else to take over. So we talk about that and we talk about sell as the S word, and to me it begins with the brand saying let's get this out in the open, let's have conversations, let's understand that if you realize this isn't for you, we have a great path for you to move forward. So brands that I've worked with for example, last weekend I was at the Taco John's conference they invite us to their conference. They say this is part of who we are. We understand we love you while you're here and you may make a choice to move on, and that's okay. We'll love you through that too. And that is where a franchisor should be.

Robin Gagnon: 13:10

They shouldn't and here's a great myth about resales is that the people inside your brand will just buy the resales, and that's a fallacy, because a couple of things will happen. One there's never especially with the silver tsunami coming there will never be enough people in your brands to expand Multi-unit conferences going on this week. There are not enough people who want to be multi-unit owners at that scale to absorb all of those units. And then the other thing and this is, I guess I'll say that's a dirty little secret that I'll share in the industry but the people in your brand, they'll never pay you enough, tom. You know what happens. They'll say, oh gosh, I remember that time it was seven years ago, when there was a lot of rain and that parking lot flooded over there. I bet there's all kinds of this and that in the walls. That new guy, you know he's not going to tear you down and bring back those stories that could potentially lower the pricing. They're coming in from an external group. They're going to pay the most. They're excited, they want to come into the brand and, generally speaking, brands that have a strong, vibrant resale program.

Robin Gagnon: 14:18

When that new resale candidate comes in, they're going to see a 10% to 15% sales lift in those stores. That is, that's quantitatively important, because then what happens? They're going to see a 10% to 15% sales lift in those stores. That's quantitatively important because then what happens? That means royalties go up by 10% to 15%. So it's a win all the way around. But it starts with the culture. You need to be talking about it. You need to let us come in and do webinars. You need to have checklists and eBooks and let us talk at your conference and just share stories about how. Listen. There is a clear path to come into the brand. Too many franchisors don't establish that clear path to exit with dignity and respect and love all the way around.

Tom DuFore: 15:03

I love what you just said. It makes me think a little bit here too, about by having a program like this in place. It allows even thinking about the franchise development team or franchise development department. It allows them to start using this to as the Stephen Covey seven habits of highly effective people. You begin with the end in mind, and so it allows for the FranDev folks to be talking about. At some point you might want to exit. I know you're just getting in, but we have a plan for that when you're ready. So whether that's in five years, 10 years or 20 years, or when you're ready to retire out of the business, whatever that looks like, we have a plan. I just think that's a great way to not shy away from it. Right, it brings it front and center to say, as the franchisor, it's okay, we know that for folks to be quote lifers, that's probably not likely. It's probably more likely that they exit at some point.

Robin Gagnon: 16:00

Exactly and having something in place to allow them to do that is so critical. And there are buyers who will shy away from brands that don't embrace, that, don't really have a strategy for moving forward. Because, as you said, as people come in to a business opportunity, they're very short-sighted. If they're only looking at a two to five-year window, right, they want to be looking and that's the franchisees you want in a brand. You want those with a strategic vision. Where do I fit into the future? And what does that mean from now? And ultimately, what do we all want? We want mumbos, right, we want multi-unit, multi-brand owners, and that those kind of strategic big buy thinkers are not going to be comfortable if the brain's like oh well, you know, if the time comes, then we can have some conversations at that point, that's not going to cut it with them.

Tom DuFore: 16:54

Is this something, then, that you work with your clients on? Do you help them put parts like this together?

Robin Gagnon: 16:59

Oh, absolutely, and we, you know, we have a massive library of resources that we rely upon. And of course, you know, at the IFA I did a succession planning workshop super session at the latest IFA, also presented that in conjunction with the franchisee forum at the leadership conference in September, and so and I've spoken multiple times in either roundtables or panel discussions to kind of elevate this as an issue and get the education out there. So from that we have built so many materials eBooks, the steps in selling a checklist to understand when and whether you're ready to sell succession planning guides, all kinds of materials. Then really, we just allow our franchise partners to just load this all up. We'll do a webinar and then they have all these resources available. We often, like I said, we'll come and do a booth or speak at their annual conference and these sessions are very well attended because people are realizing listen, all of us come to that point where we're like people are realizing, listen, all of us come to that point where we're like not forever, you know what's next, who's going to step in, and that's important. And I shared this story at the last succession planning workshop that I went to.

Robin Gagnon: 18:16

Succession planning is for everyone. I had a situation where, when I got my MBA a million years ago, one of my best friends in my MBA class was my financial advisor, younger than me, and unexpectedly he passed away last December. And as hard as that was for me personally, what struck me was that the note that for my daughter, right with our will, says if anything happens, see David, david wasn't there, right? That's when you start thinking do I really have this figured out? And so every brand needs to be thinking about that. Do I have this figured out? Do my franchisees have this figured out? Like I feel like it should be on an FBC's quarterly review. Like you know what is the succession plan? You know what's your contingency plan?

Robin Gagnon: 19:08

There's a story I share frequently and I believe it was I won't name the brand, but it was a big brand, massive fast food brand, and a gentleman owned like 200 units and this is, you know, kind of moving towards contingency versus succession planning. But it was in my LinkedIn I wrote an article about this that he had over 200 units. Young man in his 50s and the worst of the worst happened Unexpectedly, he passed away. Again, no plan in place. Ultimately, within six weeks, his multi-unit operation was filing for Chapter 7. 50 stores out of business overnight couldn't reorganize those stores. Hundreds of employees you know I can't even millions over time of royalties lost.

Robin Gagnon: 20:01

So these are tough conversations, right? None of us want to go for our annual checkup. None of us want it. But I truly believe succession planning, contingency planning, should be an annual thing for every single franchisee in America and I'm out to share that message like let's get ourselves in order and have a plan for whoever's going to come over. And often these families think it's the children. But if you sit down and talk to the children, they're like no, not me, I have something else in mind. So lots of conversations to be had around this topic.

Tom DuFore: 20:38

Well, robin, that is really great advice and thanks for sharing those stories and for someone that, when they listen to this, might be thinking okay, robin, this sounds great, I've got a restaurant to sell, or I'd love to get my own contingency planning or structure in place for a franchise resale, or they're just maybe want to connect with you. What's the best way for someone to do that? Oh, our website wesellrestaurantscom.

Robin Gagnon: 21:02

That's W-E-s-e-l-l restaurants with an scom. Jump in there text us call us at 404-800-6700. Anyone can reach out to me by email, robin at wesellrestaurantscom. But of course you mentioned my linkedin. Jump on linkedin and message me. Connect with me. I'm happy to share time with with anyone who has a as an interest in this topic or any topic related to the franchise community.

Tom DuFore: 21:30

Now's a great time for us just to make a transition, and we ask every guest the same four questions before they go, and the first question we ask is have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?

Robin Gagnon: 21:41

Oh, absolutely so many right, but I thought about this question. I'll tell you, tom, in the early days of we Sell Restaurants, we had a situation where we relied on an external web platform and it was managed by a third party and it was someone we trusted. But over time our costs went up, the limitations started to impact our ability to scale and we needed to take control. So we made the decision to build our own proprietary technology. We call it the BOSS the Brokers Operations and Sales System and it was a major shift because it took us out of just being in the brokerage business, just being in the franchise business, into also being a very technology-forward company. That move wasn't easy. Obviously it wasn't. It's not the right solution for every business. I can't imagine starting that today but it was a tough lesson. But we needed to control our infrastructure. So we learned to invest in our own capabilities and trust people to build technology on our behalf that we now own 100% of the intellectual property.

Tom DuFore: 22:45

Very, very good. Well, let's look at the other side of things. Let's talk about a make or a highlight you'd like to share.

Robin Gagnon: 22:51

They can't go see how the tires get changed, they can't go touch the retail operation. They're really investing in the idea of us, our brand, and so when I see them achieve this financial success and personal success in their markets, while we stay true to this mission to sell more restaurants than anyone else, while we build a brand that's grounded in our ethics, in our core values, in our expertise, that is obviously the biggest win and the most important mission of my life.

Tom DuFore: 23:41

Well, the name of the show is Multiply your Success, and we always ask have you used a multiplier to grow yourself personally, professionally, or organizations you've run Well for?

Robin Gagnon: 23:51

me, the multiplier is just discipline Discipline around my time where I spend it, so that I make sure that I have not only meeting time, I have to have strategy time. For me, that's really early in the morning, but that's when my team is used to getting emails from me at five in the morning says I had an idea, and then you know, by 1.30 in the afternoon we have our chief technology officer on the line and, like this was my idea, let's flex this out. So I think having the discipline around my time, owning that to be sure that I have strategy recovery, my time owning that to be sure that I have strategy recovery, workout time, like all of that, it gives me the ability to focus and helps me to multiply. That's my key multiplier.

Tom DuFore: 24:39

Well, the final question we ask every guest, Robin, is what does success mean to you?

Robin Gagnon: 24:44

You know, I think earlier on in my life it would be about did we make this number? Did we hit this milestone? Have we grown there? As I have transitioned in my own career to a kind of a different stage, it's to me defining success is what am I doing that makes a difference? How am I helping other people realize and make life-changing transitions? You know I have a perfect example. I had someone who worked for us in our call center and today she is a franchisee and she will sell 25 to 30 restaurants a year. It has been life-changing for her home, for her family, for her life. So building this business but also seeing that make a difference for others, that's really success for me.

Tom DuFore: 25:33

And Robin, as we bring this to a close, is there anything you are hoping to share or get across that you haven't had a chance to yet?

Robin Gagnon: 25:39

Gosh, I don't know I feel like we're old friends now. We've been chatting for a while. If there's anything I missed and someone wants to ping me with a question, direct message me on LinkedIn or just put it out there for the world to see and say Robin, what do you think about this? Because you said that and I want to talk about it. Let's make it happen.

Tom DuFore: 25:58

Robin, thank you so much for a fantastic interview and let's go ahead and jump into today's three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is when we talk about Robin's vision from the very beginning when she started the business, which was, from day one, to sell more restaurants than any other company or person in the country, and she started on that mission, she said 22 years ago, and here she is making it happen. I thought that was great and I love the clarity that she had on that. Just that mission has been steadfast the entire time. Takeaway number two was when she talked about having a plan, for resales is critical and I love Robin's position because she is a franchisor where she also sells franchises to her franchisees and she's in the business of reselling existing businesses, specifically restaurant businesses, and I really like how she talks about having this from the onset. So for the clients that I work with and our emerging brand franchisors, start with that right away. Have a plan, start talking with your franchisees about that and sometimes it's just not the right fit. As she said, sometimes a franchise brand doesn't fit that buyer quite the way that they thought, and having a plan to help them out is not only being helpful, it's also being a great franchisor.

Tom DuFore: 27:25

Takeaway number three is when she said. Takeaway number three is when she said quote franchising is the biggest force multiplier on earth unquote. I thought that was beautiful and well said. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win comes from when she talked about success and having discipline of her time.

Tom DuFore: 27:52

I thought that was great, where she was very clear to be disciplined on the time and things she spends time on and things that she says no to. But one of my favorite things that she's been disciplined on is her focus on her mission and having clarity on that mission from the beginning to sell more restaurants than any other company or person in her space. I thought that was fantastic. I love that clarity and it gives clarity then to her staff, her franchisees and others that are part of the system to give them the direction and mission on where they are headed.

Tom DuFore: 28:29

And so that's the episode today. Folks, please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give on where they are headed. And so that's the episode today. Folks, please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review and remember if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level. Please connect with us at bigskyfranchiseteamcom where you can schedule your free, no obligation consultation. Thanks for tuning in and we look forward to having you back next week.