Welcome And Guest Introduction

Tom DuFore 0:01

Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast, where each week we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, Tom Dufour, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team. And as we open today, I'm wondering if you are a leader who has struggled with your career ambition while also keeping your integrity. Or maybe you've been too scared to share your softer side in a business setting. If that sounds like you, then this episode is for you. Our guest today is Dr. JJ Peterson, who we're fortunate enough to have back for a second time, and he shares with us how his new podcast is designed for leaders just like you. Now, I'm thrilled to have JJ on for this because I always like a special guest for episode 300 for our special key big number of our podcasts. I've been a big fan of JJ's for many years, so it's a great honor for him to be on our show. And just a little background on JJ Dr. JJ Peterson is a Wall Street Journal in USA Today, bestselling author, uh Vanderbilt professor, and host of the Badass Softy podcast. As a former head of Story Brand, he has helped businesses like Microsoft, Certified Angus Beef, Temper Sealy, and other marquee global brands cut through the noise with clear, compelling communication. Known for blending academic research with humor and heart, JJ makes complex strategies simple to remember and inspiring enough to act on. He brings warmth, wit, and wisdom that leave audiences equipped and energized. You're gonna love this interview, so let's go ahead and jump right into it.

Defining The Badass Softy Leader

Dr. J.J. Peterson 1:40

So I am Dr. JJ Peterson and I wear a couple different titles. For the past decade, I've been with Story Brand, which is a company that helps businesses clarify their message using the power of story. And I was the head of Story Brand, but now my title is Professor in Residence. So I am the professor in residence at Story Brand. And then I've also launched my own marketing consulting agency called Conscious Brand Agency. So I'm a founder and president of that.

Tom DuFore 2:08

Fantastic. And on the verge of launching a new podcast as well. So what's that all about?

Dr. J.J. Peterson 2:14

My new podcast is called Badass Softy. And really it's about it's for leaders who are unapologetically driven, but also lead with their heart. And so I think for, you know, for many years in my career, I was surrounded by incredible leaders. I mean, I I've I can't, when I look back at who I've been able to be around, I am just kind of blown away. But I think earlier in my career, a lot of what I did is I looked to those leaders and I said, oh, I need to be like them. And I'm not like them. I'm a bit more sensitive. I'm a bit more, you know, like I love, uh if you're familiar with the Enneagram, I'm an Enneagram too. So in reality, like I've done crazy things on big stages, but I don't love to be in the spotlight. I love to be the spotlight. I like to like shine on people. And yet I look at people like, you know, say, look at Gary V, and I go, oh, so I need to be louder and I need to cuss more and I need to be like, this is what you need to do, and I, and all these things. And there have been moments in my career where I felt into that trap of saying, well, I need to be more sensitive like this person, or I need to be, I need to tone myself down, or I need to puff myself up in a way that maybe didn't feel right for me. And I looked at a lot of rooms that I was in, and I saw people puffing up their chest and being louder and knowing I can play that game. I I can win that game if you want me to win that game, but I'm not gonna feel good and you're not gonna feel good. And so, really, for the past few years, it's been me discovering what it looks like to just be like, no, I am driven. I am driven. I want to do big things in the world, I want to make a difference, I want to make a lot of money, and I want to make a lot of money for the people around me. But also at the same time, I'm not gonna lose my integrity and my soul in the process. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. And so the new podcast really is like, how do you be a badass softie? How do you be somebody who's like, here's the things you can do to kind of get ahead, but also here's the things that, like, for those of you who aren't comfortable with promoting yourself, what does that look like to still be driven and be uncomfortable promoting yourself? What does it look like to be driven and also like need to move the company forward, but have really hard conversations with people who you need to fire? Like those are the kind of things without being a jerk, you know. So all that kind of stuff. And it's pretty new, and so it's been fun to kind of put uh put that out there and kind of explore that world and really almost build a tribe of people who are trying to do that. Like we're gonna lead from our whole heart, but also like, yeah, we're gonna get crap done.

Tom DuFore 5:02

I definitely understand. And I am, for lack of a better description, an Enneagram nerd, I love the Enneagram. So as you describe that, that resonates deeply with me, really trying to do your best to do it the right way, regardless of the outcome, right? You can do well and perform and succeed by what, you know, modern culture sometimes defines as successful. Sometimes often it's monetary or money-oriented, but also I like how you said, you know, keep your soul and keep your integrity along the way. You don't have to sacrifice that in order to find business or financial success. I think that's great. I would say, just even as a quick talking point, this is part of the reason why for our podcast here, why I ask every guest the same question at the end, which we'll ask you about success and what that means, because I had a hunch that most people probably had something other than money that was driving them. And I was just curious about that.

Dr. J.J. Peterson 5:59

I love that question, and I'm excited to talk about it. Probably even between now and when I answer it, we'll change. I've been I've genuinely been thinking about it ever since you you told me you were gonna ask it. I was like, okay, ooh, and then this, ooh, and then this. Oh, what about this? And so yeah, excited for it. We'll see.

Victim, Villain, Hero, Guide Framework

Tom DuFore 6:17

This conversation makes me think a little bit about we have leaders of small businesses, big businesses. We're in the franchise world. So we have franchisors that will tune in and franchisees that will tune in for these leaders that are tuning in, that we all feel that pressure to conform to these conventional business norms rather than leading. And today's buzzword is authenticity, right? Authenticity, fill in the blank for whatever that buzzword is. But really, as you were describing, with this idea of integrity or leading with your heart. So I'd love for you to just talk about that. What advice you might have for someone that's feeling those pressures?

Empathy Plus Authority In Practice

Dr. J.J. Peterson 6:53

Yeah, you know, where a lot of this does come from, other than my own, you know, kind of just like working through it myself, is my background really is in narrative and narrative theory. So I studied a lot of stories and movies and what works and what makes moves people and how to communicate as a leader through story, all those things. Just to kind of give a little background for this is really in any movie, any good story, there are really four primary characters in a story. There is the victim, the villain, the hero, and the guide. Those are really the four primary characters in any story. And the reason they exist in story is because they exist in us, right? Like we can be those characters on any given day. So the victim really is somebody who has had something happen to them that's outside of their control. So they something that some kind of pain, some kind of struggle has happened to them. Now, if you stay a victim and you play the victim through the whole story, the story is not about you. And victims will never have a good story written about them if you just play the victim the entire time. And I think a lot of times in our life as leaders, we can play the victim because things happen and we complain and it's out of our control, and we just go, well, that's their thing. You know, and so the reality is I came to discover that people who play the victim, and there are real victims in the world, but let me not, you know, glance over that. But when you play the victim, no good story will ever be written with your life. But what happens with everybody is at some point we've had some kind of pain that happens to us. And then we come to this crossroads where we get to decide as individuals if we're going to revenge that pain and out of our pain cause other people pain, which is when we become the villain. Or we want to redeem that pain for ourselves, which is when we become the hero. We can move to fight and overcome. So that's really the difference between hero and villain, is often they have a similar backstory of pain. So you'll see villains with like a scar on their face, and you know, like they went through some crap. Like we just know they, you know, they went through some hard things. But you choose to become either the villain or the guy or the hero. If you choose to become the hero and choose to redeem that pain and continue moving forward, then eventually you become the guide. And the guide is really the strongest character in the story. This is Yoda, this is Obi-Wan Kenobi, Dumbledore, Hamich, Aslan. You know, it's the person who helps the hero win. And I believe in my life, the goal that I always have is to live more of my day in the hero and guide space than the victim and villain. Because, like, I can kind of easily become into that. Why I bring that up is because as I studied story, there's some very specific things that I began to understand about what it means to be a guide in a story. The guide is the strongest character. They really are, is in regards to this story, they are the strongest character. They also don't waver. So as the hero is kind of up and down through the whole story, struggling, dealing with all this different stuff, they're alone, they're embarrassed, they're overwhelmed, they're getting beat up. Like in a movie, the hero is almost always being beat up through the whole movie. They're not the strong character, they're pretty weak. The strongest character is the guide, the one who helps the hero win. Now, the way that the guide has to show up in a story so that it makes sense in the story is two things: empathy and authority. They have to show up and care about what the hero is going through, most likely because they have gone through that themselves. And then also they have to show up with authority, the skill, the knowledge, the plan to help the hero win. So going back to now, I just said all that to your original question about for leaders, what does that mean and how to show up as your authentic true self and kind of not lean, you know, try to become somebody else and and and put on kind of this imposter syndrome or feel icky about the way you show up? The best way to show up as a guide for the people that you are leading, or even in your own life, is with empathy and authority. So, what you're looking for is how do I understand the struggle and the pain that the people have been through who I am leading, or I'm trying to communicate with if you're trying to reach a new audience. So if you're trying to get everybody on your team to show up on time, starting just very simply with, I get it. I understand how life can be hard. And not in a flippant way, but in a very honest way of understanding, like, hey, I am with you. I understand because I have been where you have been. And then with that is also showing up with authority, some knowledge, some plan, some skill, some information, some tool that can help them win. And when you show up like that, I think you can actually true your truly become the big best badass softy version of yourself. So uh just for me, when I show up with that, when I remind myself that in any situation that I show up in, it's not my job to win, to be honest. It's not. It's my job to help other people win as a leader. And the best way I can do is show up and say, look, I get it. So if I'm doing marketing for a company, I can say, look, I understand how overwhelming this can be. I when I came out of college, I was a 22-year-old kid working for a nonprofit, and I was staring at a screen and they're asking me to create a website. You know how overwhelming that was for me? What that does is allows me to be human in that moment and have empathy, which is really the softy part, right? It's like going, we're like each other in this. But then with paired with that, I also have to then bring in my authority. Because just being their friend, if they've paid me a lot of money to show up and help them with marketing and I'm just their friend, that's not helpful. But if I bring my expertise and I say, well, for the past, so that was me when I was 22. But for the past 20 years, I've been studying Story. I teach at Vanderbilt. I've worked with companies like Microsoft and the U.S. Olympic Committee and thousands of other companies around the world helping them clarify their message and grow their business. Now, that might in that moment feel like it's a little braggy, but in the context of it all, it's not. Because I'm showing up with heart, empathy, and I'm showing up with authority, which is my experience. And when you marry those two things together, that's what allows you to lead from a place of, I think, authenticity and heart. So it's not diminishing your authority, but it's also not like, you know, toxic empathy, which happens a lot. And and I'll I'll wrap it up with this example of like, because you think about it, like if I was to go to a gym and walk into a gym and say to a trainer, hey, I'm here to lose 30 pounds, and that trainer goes, Me too. I'm not paying that trainer. I don't want a friend to, I don't want to help somebody else lose 30 pounds, right? I'm there to lose 30 pounds. But if I also walk into that gym and I say to a trainer, I'm here to lose 30 pounds, and the trainer lifts up his shirt and shows me a six-pack and goes, Well, you need to get off your butt, fatty. Probably not my trainer either. But if I walk into that gym and say, Hey, I'm here to lose 30 pounds, don't know why I'm going back to the same gym. But I go back to the gym and say, I'm here to lose 30 pounds. And that trainer says, Hey, I get it. I used to be 30 pounds overweight too, but I've developed a program and that's helped about 150 people take the weight off and keep it off. That's my trainer. So when you can show up in that space, and the first piece is understanding where your empathy and authority lies. So if you're trying to help somebody with kids and you don't have kids, that may be a little tricky. But if you're in a work context where you're leading a franchise and you've been where these workers have been, then being able to say, I've been where you've been, showing up with heart and empathizing, but then leading from your strength and your authority and not really shrinking in that serves them so well.

Make The Customer The Hero

Tom DuFore 15:38

I love that message that you shared, JJ. And I've been a huge fan of that framework and that that whole idea that you talked through for a long time and have followed you teaching it for many years. So I think it's fantastic that you're doing what you're doing now and coming to this through your own form and through your own channels here. One of the things you mentioned, having worked with some of these large brands that you talked about, and then also thinking of the small businesses that you've helped along the way too, what are some lessons that you've maybe learned that about communicating effectively and building influence that kind of ties into what we're talking about here?

Dr. J.J. Peterson 16:18

Yeah, there's there's a couple different things. The the first is, is I think for anybody in any business or leadership is recognizing that the story is not about you. Whatever story you're trying to live, and and you know this from following Story Brand, is the story is about your audience or your customer. If you want them to pay attention, if you want to try to brag about yourself and all that, go ahead, but that's not going to be effective. If you actually want people to be moved to action and connect with you on a heart level, the story has to be about them. So, from a leadership perspective, the best thing you can do whenever you're starting any campaign or con or speech or anything, even a meeting, is to stand up and or before you get in there, identify what is it that the people in front of you are struggling with, what problem do they have that you are about to solve through whatever you want to take them through. So, for instance, when I get up at a conference and I speak to a group of business owners, I do not introduce myself, I do not tell a joke, I do not try to tell some kind of cute, quippy story. I get up on stage and I start almost every speech this exact same way. We're all here because we want to grow our business, right? And I get nods from the audience. So what I've done is I've grounded the narrative in what we're gonna talk about. And then I say, but here's the problem. Most companies are wasting enormous amounts of money on marketing because they're telling the wrong story and they don't even know it. So what I've done then in that moment is hook them with a story, their story, because they don't even know that they're struggling with marketing, and I have to agitate that. So I that's the first 10 five seconds of every speech. We're all here to grow our marketing, and the problem is, and that's it. Now, the mistake that a lot of communicators do is they get up there and they'll be like, How's everybody doing today? And people go, good, and they go, Oh, I didn't hear you. It's not loud enough. And like, if somebody does that, I walk out of the room. Like, I will not, I do not handle that well. But what they're trying to do is get themselves comfortable, get people to like them. What you're doing in that moment is you're playing the hero in the story. You're trying to be the attention. Don't tell the story in a way that positions the audience as a hero. So, same thing at a meeting. I was just talking to a company about this. They were having a hard time. People, people fill out a form to tell them what computer equipment they had. So it's, you know, it's getting to the end of the year. We need to figure out how many computers we need to depreciate this year, you know, all this stuff like for the company, it's all about the taxes, revenue. We have money to spend. What computers do we need to buy? That's the company story. But they're like, we need you to take time and fill out this whole form. And people were not filling out this form. And they're like, how do we get them to fill out this form that just tells us what speakers, earphones, you know, mics, and stuff they have. It's simple. They're just not doing it. And I said, because you keep telling them we need this, we as a company need this. That doesn't matter to their story. To their story, what you need to say to them is start off with, hey, we all know that if you have equipment that doesn't work at its best, you can't do your job. We start there. Or if you're running software or microphones or things that don't work, you can't do your job. What we need you to do is fill this form out so that we can keep track of what you have and be able to get you the equipment you need to do your job. That's the story of the employee. So the mistake is we need you to fill this out, do it by Thursday, or you're gonna be in trouble. The reverse story is you want good stuff to be able to do your job well, so do we. Let's fill out this form. I mean, so it's just a small shift in the way you think about it. So that's the biggest thing for me is I think for anybody listening, anytime you're getting up in front of a meeting, in front of a group and about to do a meeting, don't start with the agenda, don't start with where you're headed, start with the problem they're experiencing that this next hour is going to solve. When you're getting up and giving a keynote, don't talk about yourself. Do not introduce yourself. Let somebody else introduce you before you get on that stage. And then start by the problem they're experiencing that hooks them, and then they'll listen to the rest of the talk for you with you.

Communicating Change People Act On

Tom DuFore 20:53

Looking forward, one of the things I love about learning from you and having listened to you and read your book is you really have a knack for seeing things and being able to have vision out there. And so as you kind of look forward over the course of the next 10, 15 years, certainly lots will change, but what do you see or in some of these shifts or trends that might be occurring in either whether it's marketing or leadership that, you know, kind of get you enthused or excited? And how should leaders start preparing for such things?

AI Demands A Human Point Of View

Dr. J.J. Peterson 21:28

I think the thing that's really getting me excited, and but it's a different spin on it, is AI, obviously. Like every AI is changing everything. But here's the thing about AI that I love is it actually is calling us to be more human. That's the part like AI is wonderful. I use it every day. I use it with my clients in front of my clients as a copywriter. Like I don't shy away from it because I actually think the value that I bring to the table in the midst of AI is even more important now. Because what Leaders need to realize when they're using AI is that AI does not have its own point of view. It cannot have its own POV. You have to give it one, or it has to find one somewhere else. So, what it does then is the people who know how to use AI the best are actually curators of content, not even necessarily creators of content. What that means is you have to understand the story and the message and the point of view that you're bringing to the table before it goes into AI. Then let AI create all the emails, all the things. And then your job is to curate it on a human connection after. So those two things, like AI fits in the middle of the human aspect, is the before you have to have a point of view. And you have to bring that into the content you're putting in. And then the content that comes out, you have to curate as well. And don't expect to just go to AI and go, here's, give me five things I need to write this week. If you do that, you're going to just get lost in this sea of noise because that's what the amateurs are doing. And so everybody can do that. But what you bring to the table as a leader and as an individual is your own specific voice and your point of view and your experience. The people who can actually lean into that more, I think are going to not only be more valuable in the market, but are going to have greater success on a personal and professional level. So I think that's the biggest piece in this is I love that AI makes things faster and gets things louder and more opportunity. But if you have garbage going in, it's just going to be louder, faster garbage coming out. Your job in using this tool is to be more human on the front end and to identify what is your perspective, your experience, your story that you're bringing to the table. Then allow AI to make that into a video or an email or a lead generator or social media post. And then after that, take it and actually put it back in your voice again. So AI, in some ways, to be very honest for me, allows me to be more human. Because what I'm not good at is going, well, I need to sit down and create a six email sequence that goes like this and creates this. And I need to have a spreadsheet that does tracks all of these things. That takes me away from my human interactions. Working in spreadsheets and systems and emails, that makes me less human because I get to be with humans less. AI takes the non-human tasks away from me so I can actually focus on being more human, both in my content and in my connection. So that's that's kind of the thing I'm excited about is I think people are like, well, humans are getting in the way of, I mean, AI is gonna like take our jobs. And I'm like, yeah, if you're bad, if you don't actually step into your own perspective and point of view, if you're trying, this goes back to badass Softy stuff, if you're trying to copy Gary V or you're trying to top copy, you know, other people in our world, Amy Porterfield or, you know, Seth Godin and try to be like them and use their point of view to create AI content, yeah, you AI will get rid of you because anybody could do that. But nobody can replace your perspective on things. So very practically, when you are creating content that is going into emails or social media posts, or even again for team meetings, and you go to AI and you're like, give me this agenda or give me this email. What AI can do is here's five things you need to do, here's five tips. Anyone can do that in AI. What they can't do is here's how I've used five things, here's five mistakes I've made. So when you take the information and you shift it just a little bit to be about your perspective and your point of view with this thing that AI created, now you get to be more human and you're going to stand out in the market because people will connect more with the human side of it.

Tom DuFore 25:59

I really like what you described there. It's the best explanation I've heard of how to not just prepare, but how to be thinking about using AI. Right now, there's certainly a lot of conversation about job loss and taking jobs, and there may be some of that occurring as this is progressing here, but it gets down to that point of if it can do those tasks that would otherwise be pulling you away from the relational aspect of it. You have relationships with people, and at the end of the day, it's a relationship that you're building. I think that's very, very well said.

Dr. J.J. Peterson 26:33

And I do think this is something I've been thinking about recently too. I do think as leaders, we have an ethical responsibility in this space as well, because there are some tasks and that can easily replace people from a task side of things. However, because the reality is like when you get to be in that leadership level, like, yes, you have perspective, you have an experience, you have all this stuff, but you were once the grunt who started at the bottom, who needed a way to find their way up. And I think we actually have a responsibility to the next generation from a better world kind of side to say there are some things that might be able to be replaced by AI with AI. But if we're actually investing in the next generation of leaders, we will take a hit on that financially, in my opinion. That's something you should consider in order to think about like five years from now, who is this kid gonna be and who are they going to become, and how can they help you in a different way that AI would never be able to? So AI can fix some short-term kind of things, but long-term investing in people and working together as a team, that that is irreplaceable. So there's some things with it of like, am I excited about AI? 100%, because of some space that it's opening up. Also, is there some ethical considerations we have to take and how we use it? 100%.

Tom DuFore 27:58

For me, I've got three kids, one in high school and a couple more right behind. You start thinking, well, where are those entry-level positions? And even if you don't have kids that are fast approaching into that space, you start thinking, like you said, at one point, we all were that person who was 18, 22, 25, getting that first job or first opportunity at a some entry-level thing. Yeah, and you're doing entry-level work, but you're attending maybe meetings or you're learning from people who are 10, 20, 30 years older than you that you're able to gather some of that tribal wisdom, even if it's just at that organization that's able to be transferred. That's a really, really great point. Well, JJ, this is a great time in the show where we make a transition. And before we do that, I'd love for you to share how people can get in touch with you, how they can find out a website, your new podcast link. Yeah.

Dr. J.J. Peterson 28:53

So the new podcast is called Badass Softy, and it's on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube. So you can find it there. And then my personal website is drjjpeterson.com, so drjjpeterson.com. I have an agency, like I said, called Conscious Brand Agency, and I help people kind of create messaging for their companies and for thought leaders to help them not only identify like what is their unique voice and how do they uniquely position themselves as a guide in their environment, but then also create products and stuff to put that out in the marketplace.

Ethics, Entry-Level Work, And AI

Tom DuFore 29:28

Fantastic. Well, and we'll make sure we include the links in the show notes so that anyone that listens in can quickly access that right through the show notes and link over and hopefully subscribe right away, start enjoying more content from you. JJ, as I mentioned, this is a great time. We make that transition and we ask every guest the same four questions before they go. And you're one of the few that's been able to be on twice now. So I'm so grateful. So we'll ask those same four questions again. And the first question is have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?

Dr. J.J. Peterson 30:00

So I teach at Vanderbilt in the Master of Marketing Program. And this is something where, you know, like I kind of have mentioned, I've worked with companies around the world. I've worked, you know, I've done been, I was a professor for a number of years before I was in the marketing space as well. And I remember the first probably two, so I've been teaching there for about five years. And the first probably two years that I got into that room, I lost all confidence because what happened was I shifted in that moment of being the expert in the room who was there to help them win. And I got intimidated by rich college kids because Vanderbilt, like a lot of the kids, you know, they got money. And they don't really have to be there. A lot of them, like there's a bunch of, I'll just be honest, athletes who are there on scholarship that are in marketing and all this stuff. That's not a, I mean, there's a lot who are obviously amazing and wonderful people, but that was it, what was in my brain. I was like, they don't want to be here. I have to make them like me. So I started out my talks the exact opposite way that I told everybody to do theirs, is I got up and I started trying telling funny stories and I was sweating and I, it was a nightmare. And what I learned in that moment was hey, again, if you're really the guide, what I was doing in that moment was I was trying to make myself the hero. I was trying to get them to like me. And if I actually wanted to be the guide and help them, then it wasn't about my story or anything. It was about helping them. And now I'm just more disciplined to start off every class the same way that I start off when I'm working with companies and on any stage because I know that it serves the students better than me trying to make a joke. So that was like, I literally I remember just sweating, pulling bullets while I'm like trying to like impress these kids. And I'm like, what am I doing? I don't need to do this.

Tom DuFore 31:51

Thank you for sharing. And let's look at the opposite end. Let's look at a make or to a highlight that you'd like to share.

Contact Info And Offerings

Misses, Makes, And Owning The Room

Dr. J.J. Peterson 31:59

There's been lots. I was trying to think about this, you know, like I worked with the U.S. Olympic Committee and I'm a huge Olympics fan, which was kind of unbelievable. So I've done some things that have been, you know, made the Wall uh Wall Street Journal bestseller kind of stuff. But truthfully, the the true success was the the opposite of what I just explained, is I went in to work with a company that they bring in that they buy companies that are say around the 10 million mark and then grow them to around 100 million and then the way they and then sell them. But the way they do that is by kind of headhunting these big, big business guys and bringing them in. So the night before I'm talking to this group, I'm walking through the hotel with the owner of the company and he's sharing, like introducing me to people who are there for this workshop. And the first person was the vice of former vice president at Disney. And then another person was the CEO and of Xerox. And then another was the founder of Shutterfly. So it's like, and each one of them, as I came up to them, were like, oh, so you're our speaker tomorrow. Well, I know story. I've done story. I hope I can learn something. Like that, like those all that one of the people said those exact words. And then another person said to me, Well, this is the most expensive room you're ever going to be in. I hope it's worth it. And just like things like that. And then right before the next day, I'm about to walk on stage in front of all these people. The president of the company who hired me came over to me and said, We spent a lot of money on this. I really need you to make it worth it. And I started shaking. I'm not kidding. I don't shake, and I just started shaking. And they handed me the microphone, and my I could not control my hand. And they're like introducing me up front, and I had about 10 seconds to get myself ready for this. And the first thing that happened is I remembered Carson Daly talking about how he has anxiety. And the way he like deals with that is he pushes his hands together and squeezes as hard as he can for 10 seconds, and that releases energy. So I did that. The second thing I did was have to reshift my brain and go, you are here as a gift to these people on behalf of the company. The company is offering me as a gift to the people who are in this room. It's their job to accept or reject this gift. My job is to just show up and give the gift. So that was kind of one piece. And then the second was I basically had to say to myself, hey, in this small slice of the world, you are the expert in this space. Like, yes, they may be better business people. They may be older than you, more experienced, more famous than you. But when it comes to narrative marketing through the story brand framework to grow your business, there are there, I am the expert in the world on this. And if I'm their guide, it does me no good to shrink or become insecure. It's my job to stand firm in my authority and show up and help them win. And I did it. And I was able to own that room in a way that I might not have ever owned a room before. And some of them ended up hiring me for other things down the line. And it was a huge success. But it was kind of the opposite of that Vanderbilt. In Vanderbilt, I shrunk and I tried to make myself the hero. And I showed up in that other space where I probably should have been tempted to become a hero again. And instead, I just showed up and said, No, I'm an I'm the guide. This is a gift. And they get to accept or reject it, but I need to show up in my own authority.

Tom DuFore 35:34

Amazing story. Congratulations on that. That's really fantastic. Well, the next question we ask, JJ, is have you used a multiplier to help you multiply yourself personally, professionally, or organizations you've run?

Dr. J.J. Peterson 35:48

Yeah. I mean, obviously AI is a multiplier, you know, in many ways. The biggest thing I would say is a multiplier that has been helpful for me in different areas of my career is what I would say is this might be a little bit different than what normally we think of in this space, but it's figuring out my message in a way that niches me down. And there's different ways to niche in your industry, in your work, is that one, like you can go after, like as a marketer, I could go after chiropractors. Like so I niche down to chiropractors in the sense of I could, you know, women over 40 demographics or like different types of people, or it can really be on the problem I solve. So like if I am a chiropractor, but I solve problem and chiropractor differently than other chiropractors, if I can say that in my message very clearly, it niches me down. How that becomes a multiplier is one, you the way you communicate becomes consistent over and over. So you're not trying to tell multiple stories. So it saves time and your messaging, your marketing. You're able to reach the right audience and they can move by word of mouth because now they know, oh, you want the chiropractor guy? It's JJ. You know, like so it works in that sense. And then you're able to develop systems quicker and faster because you're serving a niche market. And niche can feel scary because it feels limiting. But I believe as long as you have access to an audience and you have space to grow, then I think niching down, whether it's demographic or message, helps multiply your business in ways that you probably could never do just by going big. Like when you even say, like, okay, franchise, right? When you kind of niche down to Franchise, can you help you personally help all small businesses out there? 100%. And can you do that on a broader scale? And have you helped people who are not franchised? Sure. But also when you niche down like this, then you become that guy who can do work with those people and help them. And then they're telling other people about you. Now you have your system set up that can help and all these things. And again, can you help other people? Sure. Absolutely. And does it close you off from helping other people if great opportunities come your way? Sure. No, it does not. But when you name it, it allows you to multiply yourself in some ways you probably never even thought.

Tom DuFore 38:12

Yeah. Oh, very, very well said. And well, JJ, the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

Dr. J.J. Peterson 38:19

Oh my gosh. Like I said, it's probably changed 500 times, even in this podcast. You know, I think if I really I was trying not to be cliche, is really what it is. That's why it was hard for me, is because I didn't want it to be some kind of cliche. But I think honestly, as I think more and more about it as I get to be this age, is it's impact and legacy. Like I feel like I've I've been able to have so much incredible people pour into me and I've had so many incredible experiences. And I want to be able to use that to impact other people. And so the the way that, like when I start crying, which I do often, it's when I hear people that I've worked with, when I see light comes on in my students or people I see I've worked with have successes of their own. Those are the things that light me up. There's a few more mountaintops I want to climb personally. But the reality is, like I've been to some of the best restaurants in the world. My funnest part is when I take other people to those restaurants, right? Like when I see other people get to experience joy, that's where I that's success for me. So that's kind of where it is. I think, and the way I boiled that down was like impact and legacy, like bringing a difference of my own point of view to the world so that it can make a difference in others.

Tom DuFore 39:38

And as we bring this to a close, JJ, is there anything you were hoping to share or get across that you haven't had a chance to yet?

Multipliers And The Power Of Niching

Dr. J.J. Peterson 39:45

No, to be honest. But the last parting words I would leave with people is just, you know, in your life, I think we all have the opportunity every day to play the victim, the villain, the hero, or the guide. And there will be moments where things happen to you that are out of your control. Understand that that's okay to be a victim in that moment. But then you ultimately have a choice. Are you going to revenge it and cause other pain for people, or are you going to redeem it for yourself and work to find redemption in the moment? And then ultimately, if you can move towards being a guide and use that experience to help other people, you will write a better story with your life.

Tom DuFore 40:26

JJ, thank you so much for a fantastic interview. And let's go ahead and jump into today's three key takeaways. So, takeaway number one is when JJ said he likes to be the spotlight, not in the spotlight. And he said he doesn't want to play the game of puffing your chest or lose his soul in the process, even though he's driven. He wants to keep his integrity. And I know I feel that way often. I'm sure those of you that listen in, many of you might feel that way and can relate to that. Takeaway number two is when he shared that his background is in narrative marketing and storytelling, and that there are four characters in every story. There's the victim, the hero, the villain, and the guide. And he said the guide is the strongest character throughout the story. Takeaway number three is when he said the story is not about you, meaning when you're marketing to your customers, it's about your audience or your customer. It's about them, not about you. Thought that was great. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win is when JJ said right before we ended the episode, and he said, in life, you have the opportunity to play the hero, the victim, the villain, or the guide. And when you find yourself in the position of the victim, you have a choice. And I thought this choice was interesting that he said, where you have the choice, you can be the villain, or you can choose to become the hero that overcomes that challenge in a positive way, and then eventually turns into the guide. And by choosing the guide, you create a better story for your life. I just thought that was fantastic. What a great way to take the pain that's created when you happen to be in the position of the victim and channel that into a positive outcome. And so that's the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise our business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at BigSkyFranchise Team.com where you can schedule your free, no obligation consultation. Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.