Welcome And The AI Search Problem

Tom DuFore 0:01

Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast, where each week we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, Tom Dufour, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team. And as we open today, I'm wondering what your plan is for getting found in AI searches. You know, when someone goes online, or maybe you do this now, you're finding yourself going to your favorite AI tool and typing in questions to get answers. And others are doing that. How are your customers or prospects finding you? Do you have a plan for that? Well, our guests today are Lauren Wang and Lisa Villafane, and they share with us insights on how to get found and practical strategies to take to do it. Now, Lauren is a co-founder of Skybound Strategies, specializing in answer search visibility and digital growth systems. With over a decade in marketing and brand development, Lauren blends creativity with technical execution. She works with emerging and established franchise brands to improve their franchise findability, ensuring they show up across the changing landscape of modern search experiences. And Lisa is the director of operations at Skybound Strategies. She brings over 25 years of experience in advertising, marketing, and event production, and she has led high impact initiatives and growth and managed nine-figure budgets for major brands like Toyota, Kimberly Clark, Mattel, and Domino's. Known for her ingenuity, precision, and integrity, Lisa focuses on delivering tailored, detail-oriented solutions for clients. You're going to love this interview with Lisa and Lauren with Skybound Strategies, a division here of Big Sky franchise teams. So let's go ahead and jump right into it. We are here today to really talk about this idea of AI, specifically AI search and related searches within the various forms of AI and how all of this applies and works together. And to me, this is a pressing issue and really the issue of, I think, an age in marketing, this new age that's upon us. And so I'd love for you to just get a conversation started, maybe some historical context or what you all see that's happening on really getting found online in a totally new way.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yes. Well, things have changed. Everything has changed, you could say. I've been working in digital marketing since before social media manager was a job title, before you know businesses had Facebook pages. And I was building brand visibility when we were still convincing people that the internet mattered. And so we've seen not just search evolve, but social explode, algorithms really change everything. And now we're entering into this new AI era. So hear me when I say that this is the biggest shift in digital visibility since social media. Search has really fundamentally changed. You know, for years it really meant ranking on Google SEO, right? We've heard that term before. But now people don't search, they ask. And they're asking AI answer optimization or AEO answer engine optimization. They're asking Chat GPT, they're asking Gemini at the top of Google or Claude or Grok. They ask voice assistants who to use, who to trust, and who to call. And AI just doesn't browse the internet the way humans do. It makes decisions. So really everything has changed.

Tom DuFore 3:40

That's pretty significant with what you said there, Lauren, and this idea of people don't search anymore. They ask. And I even find my personal behavior changing as a consumer. I even see that within myself where I'm searching and typing and seeing this change. So as a business, our own behavior is changing, but very often I see businesses and they're not making those adjustments to address the change or the shift that their own customers might be having. And so what are you seeing, or what are some things people might be able to do to make sure they don't get lost in the shuffle or through this transition?

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah, there's uh a few things we found. First, I'll say is just stop waiting for the algorithm to find you. That's one thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah, I was gonna say an example the other night. I was, you know, researching to purchase, you know, make a pretty big purchase. And I was, you know, let me check what the reviews are, but let me let me try it with ChatGBT. And I was surprised that some of the answers were not some of the top vendors that I would have thought. And it was, you know, smaller vendors or you know, not as good reviews. And that made me think it's it's because they're not findable. AI is just not not seeing them, you know. I mean, even Amazon things were missing off of it, like some big things. And you know, if I didn't know any better, then I would just go with the the suggestions that had.

Tom DuFore 5:01

What's important here for a leader of a company to be thinking about to make sure that they are starting to get found? So, Lisa, to your point, they don't wind up like you find some of these great companies that have great reviews, but then they're not coming up in the AI search.

Four Signals AI Uses To Trust

SPEAKER_01 5:19

And the ones that do aren't necessarily the best ones, they're just the ones that are easier found. And that's not really what a searcher or what someone who uses ChatGPT wants. They want all the information.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

First of all, just start building the kind of content that AI can't ignore. So the businesses that are showing up right now, as Lisa mentioned, they're not lucky. They're structured, they're specific, and they're consistent. And this is just the very beginning. But that really is what I just said, like the whole formula there of what AI really needs to trust you. So it really needs clear positioning. It has to understand exactly what you do and who you're for. And it needs consistent authority signals, so repeated, reliable signals from other places saying that you are credible. It really needs structured content. These aren't just blogs. This is schema that AI can actually read that's organized and connected. And it just needs ongoing, I think this is the most important one, ongoing signals of relevance. So fresh, accurate information over time. That's what AI is indexing, that's what it's pulling from. You got to stay on top of it. And I think a suggestion for content is if it's a topic that you are an expert in and you love to talk about, don't move on until you've posted about it 20 times, you know, and then and then move on. But really have these ongoing signals of relevance over time. And what we've seen is some businesses have some of this, but almost nobody has kind of all of it working together. And so visibility, findability, it's really a system. It's not just a single tactic, but that's a great place to start.

Tom DuFore 6:56

I think we were talking pre-show a little bit about this. There are really four key things, and I think you just listed those off, but what are those four things again?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah. So this these are the things that AI really needs to trust a business. The first, number one, is clear positioning. Number two, consistent authority signals. Number three is structured content. And number four is ongoing signals of relevance. Those are really the top four things that we found that move the needle in AI search. The first one, really, AI needs to understand exactly what you do and exactly who you're for. So that should show up everywhere in all of your content, but also in your schema, in your headings, et cetera, just talking to your target audience all the time in your clear positioning. So that's the first one.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Lauren, if I may interrupt. And you'll notice as Lauren goes through these that they're very different, similar, but different than how a human would scan a page or how they would find a page. So it is, it is a little different. Overlap, but different.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

The second one, those consistent authority signals are these repeated, really reliable signals that AI says, oh, oh wow, they're credible. And this is basically, if you've heard the term backlinking before, people bringing you up, linking you, tagging you, et cetera, awards, industry awards, all kinds of the all kinds, all kinds of other things can be authority signals, but these need to be reliable and consistent signals that really tell that you are credible. It's not just what we say, but what others say about us. The third one, structured content. So this isn't just blogs. This is really content that you have really organized and that all works together. So links to other parts of your page, pages, other parts of your offering. If you're a franchise, this is a really great opportunity to connect and organize all of your content out there. So just making sure that it's really structured and in a way that AI can read. Lisa brought up a good point here. We are writing for human eyes, but we are also writing for machines. And so that is a whole nother, a new world of schema and headings and things that people used to do in blogs because they looked cute and now it totally doesn't work for the way that machines read. So really structuring that content in the right way for machines to read it and not just blogging. And then the last one is just consistency. And that really is the name of the game. It's just making sure that you are giving this fresh, accurate information consistently over time. And this is the one that a lot of what we see business owners and clients really struggle with because they have a business to run and they have other things to do. So this is the one that we feel is kind of one of the biggest struggles is just that, those ongoing signals of relevance and kind of staying on top. And so what we do is we like to say, okay, go run to search, go look yourself up right now and go to AI and say, you know, what's the top roofer in my city or what's the best dentist near me and see if you show up. But it's about staying there because this is so new. The more and more content that gets pushed out every single day, those are going to change. So you might be showing up today, but it's about staying there. And so that's what that fourth one really helps with.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

It's not a set it and forget it type of strategy at all. I mean, with the speed that AI and technology are going, you can't just make a plan and then think it's all good.

Why Classic SEO Is Not Enough

Tom DuFore 10:31

So it makes me think, okay, well, someone might listen into this and be thinking, well, I'm already doing SEO, isn't that doing the same kind of thing? You know, I'm doing a blog post and I'm doing some SEO. How does that all play into this?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah. And like I said, there is a lot of overlap. That definitely does, you know, help a little bit in AI. But if you're not speaking in a way that AI can see you or hear you, then you're not hitting that target. And like Lauren said, if you do a search on your own business in your own area, you might be surprised who does come up. Maybe it's not someone that you've really heard of before, but you know, maybe they're just hitting the AI buttons, if you will.

Tom DuFore 11:04

I'm an owner, I'm a leader of my company, and most of this stuff sounds like, hey, maybe I could do this myself, but over time, it's probably that consistency that's really, really hard. So, how are you helping your clients and people with this process that are maybe running into these kinds of conversations where they recognize maybe I can do some of this or maybe not, or how are you helping folks with this?

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah, so we put together a findability system that basically we don't guess, we structure. So we structure your content, we schedule it out, we publish it for you, and really help you build that digital authority that AI can understand and trust. That has been really beneficial. We love charts, diagrams, uh, things that help us understand. Yes. And so we've spent years helping brands get found. And this is just simply that next evolution, really just translating your business into a language that modern discovery systems can recognize.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

To your point, Tom, you know, a business owner who's asking, well, I can do this, you know, why can't I do this on my own? It seems simple enough. You could be capable of doing it just like if you're a restaurant owner, you could be answering the phones, you could be making reservations, you could be cooking, you could be serving, you could do all of those things, but you can't. You can't spend your time, you need to spend your time doing what you do best and focusing on running the business as opposed to different operations of the business.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

That's such a good point. I mean, I love a DIY moment, but this sort of system is it's complex, it's ongoing, and it's ever evolving. So it's something that we are changing, you know, every single day. So it's just one of those things that really takes full focus right now as it's new.

Free Audit And Seven Day Trial

Tom DuFore 12:45

For someone that listens in, because I tend to agree with you, even though there are times I find in myself where I think, well, I could do this myself, and it lasts for about three days or a week, maybe two, and then it's off, you know, and I forget about it, and another week or two have gone by, and now I'm way behind, and then I just forget about it. So for someone that maybe thought that way or gone through that similarly to me, how can someone maybe get in touch or get this process started or learn a little bit more about what you're doing and even just figure out am I a candidate? How do I stack up out there?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah. So if you're one of those businesses, you don't want to be replaced by louder competitives or you're just tired of relying on ads alone. We have our website is at skyboundstrategies.com and we have a free findability audit that we will run for you and we'll actually give you a findability score. And we'll meet with you, go over our findings, and kind of give you a place to go from there. Again, that findability audit is at skyboundstrategies.com. You can click on findability. We also offer a seven-day free trial so you can kind of see what we've built. We'll give you your first content piece and let you kind of try it out and see what you think.

Tom DuFore 13:58

So free content piece, that sounds great. So kind of building out a post or some kind of writing or blog that's gonna have the blog content, SEO, and this findability, the schema.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yes, absolutely. So that's included. It's both for discovery learning and for human consumption. So it's got both pieces of the puzzle in that content piece. And we kind of show you where to start with, which helps give you clarity about your visibility and findability over time.

Franchise Growth And Local Discovery

SPEAKER_01 14:24

My favorite part also is all of these content pieces, they're not written for just humans, they're not written just for AI, they're written for both, but they're also written for your B2C and your B2B side. So this can help your customers find you, which should always be your number one, obviously, because you have to have a business in order to franchise your business. And then also for your franchisees to find you as well. So we can structure these content pieces to kind of hit both at the same time. We can alternate them, they can be updated if you, you know, progress and do this for a few months. We can change content according to your marketing needs as well.

Tom DuFore 14:59

Lisa, you bring up a great point. I'm so glad you mentioned that. Shame on me for not bringing up this whole franchise idea, but certainly folks are tuning in that are franchisors thinking about franchising their business. And so you're recruiting customers for yourself. If you're franchising, you're recruiting potential franchisees as well as then supporting those franchisees as they launch into their local markets. So, how is Skybound and what you're doing? How are these services and things you're offering? How are you able to help that franchise or and the franchisee?

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah, so we strategize and we make sure that there's a great mix of keywords, of ranking keywords, of prompts that AI would find that hit not just your customer base, but also your potential franchisee base. So it speaks to both both worlds. In the beginning of an article or a blog, you know, we like to talk about the industry, what the insides are about, you know, its position, the business position in industry, and then kind of tie it back to the business, how well it's doing, and you know, if you're open to this is for the franchisees, if they're open to franchising. So we kind of just tie it in at the end rather than making it the full focus of an article. Kind of like that that 80-20 rule. You want to have 80% of education and just authoritative content, and then 20% of you know, business about customers and you know, the real nuts and bolts of the business, getting customers and franchisees.

Tom DuFore 16:24

And do you see this being feasible and workable? You know, I'm thinking of maybe a home services business or a retail or a restaurant type business where you might have several territories or franchisees within a given metro area. And so there's that piece of some hyper-local stuff going on with this, and then also maybe on a national search for those franchise that are looking or recruiting franchisees.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah, franchise and franchisees are in a very special place because it's a rise together situation. So you guys are helping each other, and then you're still going to get answers based on your local market when you're asking, uh, which is so great about AEO. We don't have to like look for the answers. It's going to come to us based on who we are, where we are, et cetera. So I think franchise oars have a really specific, special opportunity during this time to grow together. It is really a great opportunity to become a national brand, an international brand, a household name. Like these are the opportunities where they do, they work absolutely together to help get your name out there. All of that credibility kind of feeds back into each other. And it just helps AI understand a little bit more your credibility.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

I'd love to highlight something else too. Think of everything as like in your toolbox to a business owner who is looking to franchise specifically. This is a great tool in your toolbox, an asset. So that when you are marketing to your franchisees and you're you're talking specifically to them, this is an asset that you're bringing to them, something that's serving just you.

Tom DuFore 18:01

Yeah, Lisa, I think that's a great point to differentiate the prospective franchise buyer. They are probably thinking about this, even if they don't mention it. So as a franchise or not having a solution might make you look like you're not with it. That franchise buyer might be saying, I can't believe you don't have a solution, or at least an idea. So now whether they develop on their own or work with you all or figure out some other way to do it, this will give them a plan to be able to say, we have a plan, we have a strategy to help you make sure you're getting found in these AI searches or these, these answer, Lauren. I like early on you said the difference between searching and asking. So answering these questions that people are asking into these large language models out there.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

And it's kind of dual, dual purpose too. It's it's or not dual purpose, but a franchisee looking for franchisors or what business to get into, they're gonna want to know how are you gonna help me once I'm in business? What what support do I get? What tools do I get, which is why I mentioned that toolbox. But also, how is this business AI proof? Everyone is concerned about AI. So, how, how, if I'm gonna invest in this business, how are you thinking about AI and how are you incorporating this into your business? So, Lauren and I like to think of ourselves as that bridge to AI as opposed to you know being the AI leaders, let's say. So, we like to keep our our focus on AI and and learn how to be that bridge for business owners.

Tom DuFore 19:27

That is very, very well said. And Lauren and Lisa, can you give us again just the website or way to reach out for that free assessment or that introductory conversation?

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yeah, so skyboundstrategies.com and you click on findability.

Misses Wins And Multipliers

Tom DuFore 19:42

Perfect. Well, we'll make sure we include that in the show notes. And this is a great time in the show. I know we work together and I've known you all for a while, but I love this part of being able to ask the same question we've asked every guest since we started these four questions. And the first question we ask is have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Oh, I've got one. Lisa, I don't know if you have one, but I think for me, mine is a platform dependency. So for years, you know, I've helped businesses build things on, you know, what we call in the digital world rented land, right? Social platforms and there's algorithm shifts and ad dependencies and things. So I really think, you know, you you shouldn't always mistake attention for stability. And so making sure that you own your platform. So building authority on your own domain, on your own website, really owning that, I think, is a huge learn for me that I've taken and just helping businesses grow. We don't put everything on every other platform. We also need to build on our own.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Very kind of like not putting all your eggs into one basket, right?

unknown 20:49

Yeah.

Tom DuFore 20:49

And Lisa, how about for you?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

I would say that as well. Also, not understanding um how quickly or underestimating how quickly this can move and not relying on, oh, someone else will figure it out and then I'll jump in. So you really need to be the forerunner of something that you don't understand and not have someone else figure it out for you.

Tom DuFore 21:09

Let's look at a highlight or a make or two.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

I really enjoy just getting to work with franchise brands. Like, can that be my win? Big sky brands and what they are building are like so exciting. It's just such a fun, it's just such a fun thing to get to help people do because they are it. You know, they are successful, doing well, you know, and they know they have this thing that if they could just get some help growing it, like it could just really help people, serve people, change lives. And like that's what we get to do. And I get to do it with people that I share like vision with, that I share values with. And like, what is better than that? So for me, that's that's a win. I don't, I don't know if that's a career win. And hopefully Lisa has something better. But for me, that is a win.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, I think my win is really just similar, but meeting people where they're at. So I love meeting. Business owners who are successful in their own right, but also need help. So they recognize that, you know, I'm great at what I do, but I don't understand this. So how can you help me do that? That's what I really love. I live really and across different industries. No, no two days are alike, which is great. Because it keeps you on your toes.

Tom DuFore 22:18

Yeah, thank you. And let's talk about a multiplier that you've used to multiply yourself personally, professionally, or organizations you've run.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

I want to say content is a multiplier. We really like to build these systems that keep working. And so we love structure. And I think something that a system that can help you produce results, you know, long after that initial work is done. So, you know, one blog can become email nurturing or one piece can become, you know, a sales funnel down the line or et cetera, across multiple channels. So I think that's one way that we can multiply ourselves is through these systems and kind of, you know, creating content and using that as your superpower.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah, the last thing that we want to do is create a tool that is a short-term, short-sighted tool. We want something in your toolbox that not only can grow with you, but also with the industry, with AI, and help you get to where you want to be.

Tom DuFore 23:14

Well, the final question we ask is what does success mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Success to me is relationships. Truly. Whether you use our service or not, it's really about relationships and education and just being a foster to having to someone else growing. That I think because like Lauren said, you said something similar about, you know, their success is also your success. So that I think is just what it's all about. Someone else succeeding makes means that I succeed too.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. And working with these brands that are trusted and chosen, and it's easy to help them become the default because they are, they deserve to be. And so, yeah, I love that. I definitely think that is that is success.

Tom DuFore 23:57

Well, as we bring this to a close, is there anything you were hoping to share or get across that you haven't had a chance to yet?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Don't be afraid to try something. If something is unknown, like AI can be pretty scary for some people or just growing in general can be scary to some people. It's okay to lean on someone who can help you bridge that gap and learn something along the way. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

I love that. I I don't say this to scare you, but if your brand isn't being recommended by AI, it's being replaced by someone who is. But as Lisa said, the good news is you can build for this. You've you've survived the social media shift, you've survived mobile first, and this is just the next mountain, and we can climb it together. And the future really belongs to brands that are clear, credible, and findable.

Three Takeaways And Final Challenge

Tom DuFore 24:42

Lisa and Lauren, thank you so much for a fantastic interview. And let's go ahead and jump into today's three key takeaways. So, takeaway number one is when they were talking about getting found on AI. And I think it was Lauren who had said, everything has changed now, entering into this new AI era. This is the biggest shift since social media and it's all on answer engine. And they ask who to trust. People are searching through these answer engines, are asking who to trust and who to call. Takeaway number two is if your brand isn't being recommended by AI, it is being replaced by your competitor or someone else who is getting mentioned or recommended by AI. So I just want to say that again, because I think that's a huge deal. And this is a big aha moment that I personally have had, not only for our business, but also for our clients. One of the reasons we're talking all about this in Skybound is launching this service, is because they said if your brand isn't being recommended by AI, it is being replaced by someone who is. Takeaway number three: there are four things that AI needs to trust a business. Number one, clear positioning. Number two, consistent authority signals. Number three, structured content. And number four, ongoing signals of relevance. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win is this whole idea of getting started with some sort of AI plan and strategy. And no decision is a decision. So you need to get a plan. And reaching out to Lauren and Lisa with SkyBond Strategies certainly is a place to start with their free assessment, free consultation. Obviously, it's a division of ours here at Big Sky, but I find tremendous value. Our company, we've been doing this, by the way, for the last few months, and we are already seeing an improvement for just our business and what we're doing. And if you're a franchisor, you need to start looking into this to help your franchisees continue to find success and to reassure franchise candidates that you have a plan. Because they might not be saying it, but there's a very good chance your franchisees are thinking about it and your prospective franchisees. So my recommendation reach out, get a consultation. And if it's not with Lauren and Lisa and what they're doing, then figure it out in some other way to help get that going. Because that's going to be a huge win for you and your customers and your franchisees, making it easier to be found there. And so that's the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise your business or take their company to the next level, please connect with us at BigSkyFranchise Team.com where you can schedule your free no obligation consultation. Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.