Book Release And The Virtue Question

Tom DuFore 0:01

Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast, where each week we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, Tom Dufour, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team, and today is a very special episode. It's the official announcement episode and podcast of my new book. And I co-wrote that with a couple of other authors, and there are guests on the show today. So as we open, the opening question today is what do you think of when you hear the word virtuous? And what does it mean to be virtuous? And can such a thing exist in business? Well, our guests today are Drs. Ethan Slaughter and Debbie Philpot, who are my co-authors of our new book called Virtuous Business, a Model Approach. And in this episode, we talk about the idea of virtuousness as a leader and within an organization. Now, Ethan is a finance professional with extensive experience in financial strategy, business ethics, and leadership. He's served as key executive roles, including COO and CFO, where he's helped businesses optimize financial performance and drive cultural transformation. As an educator, Dr. Slaughter teaches virtuous leadership, business ethics, and corporate financial planning and analysis at Indiana Wesleyan University. Dr. Philpot is an adjunct professor, dissertation committee member, doctoral research chair, higher education curricular writer, freelance editor and writer, and consultant. She teaches business courses and the crafts of research, writing, and getting published. Her interests include scholar practitioner research, writing stewardship, and sustainable living spiritually and practical theology. You're going to love this episode, and it's so great to be able to share this new and exciting book release with you. So let's go ahead and jump right into my interview with Debbie Philpot and Ethan Slaughter, my co-authors in our new book, Virtuous Business A Model Approach.

How The Coauthors Linked Up

Tom DuFore 2:07

This episode is going to be a little bit different because this is one that involves the host of the show a little bit, but I'm so excited for the two of you to be on here for the announcement and official release of our book, Virtuous Business A Model Approach. Let's just start with a little background of maybe some of the genesis that led to wanting to get this book put together and even the bringing of the three of us together to get this started.

Ethan Slaughter 2:34

I think Debbie can probably speak more to the genesis of the virtuous business model, which I'm sure that we'll talk a lot about. But I remember, Tom, when you and I were in the doctoral program together, I had this affinity for the leadership portion of the model. And, you know, Debbie being a professor of ours, you and I really hadn't crossed paths, but you had taken the same sort of affinity for the organizational aspect of the model. And I believe it was she that brought us together and thought, you know, there's a lot of synergy here. She knew the origin of the model, and we had probably done maybe the most advanced work or implementation of the model that that had been done so far. So she really brought us together to start writing on the model outside of the original publication.

Debbie Philpott 3:23

Yeah, there were four things that I I recall being very excited about when we three came together. And one of them was to provide a deeper dive into the virtuous business model to inform others because quite frankly, there's just not much out there about the virtuous business model. The second one was to spark conversations. We said that was one of the key things that we wanted to do when we wrote this book was let's let's have a conversation together and spark one with others. And it kind of leads to also that key question that we included on the back of the cover of our book. And that is, what if virtue wasn't simply a moral ideal, but the very foundation of leadership and organizational success that kind of drove that research for us. And then we also wanted to share our stories. Tom, you and Ethan have such great stories on your practical implementation of the VVM in the workplace. And I've seen it in through student studies. And then we also wanted to offer others a practical means for how they could implement the VVM. So I think those four things really drove our interest in writing this book.

Tom DuFore 4:28

I echo that sentiment. And Ethan, I remember we ended up getting paired together in our cohort and eventually into our problem-based learning team that we ended up working together in that. And then this book has been a long time coming for all of us. This month, as of this recording, it's been four years that I know when I was brought in, and Ethan, you and Debbie paired up a little bit before that to start the conversation and working together. So four years in the making, slow and steady wins the race, right? So we're the tortoise, not the hare, in this

The Virtuous Business Model Explained

Tom DuFore 5:00

instance. Well, let's talk a little bit about the virtuous business model. It's something that I think has united all of us together and brought us together and circle around. What is this virtuous business model? Why is it even worth writing about?

Debbie Philpott 5:14

Yeah, well, the virtuous business model, it's a framework that helps leaders and organizations operate in ways that create value, not just for profit, but also to help people and communities and society as a whole. Its relevance today in regards like leaders are asking about how to build sustainable organizations that are ethical and how can they inspire trust and communication, and essentially how can they do well while doing good. One of the interesting things though is the VPM isn't the only ethics framework that's available, but it has two unique features, I think. And one of them is that it considers both the leader and the organization. And the other distinctive is that it integrates theological reflection into ethical thinking. A lot of times when you see ethical frameworks, it's more about ethical philosophy. And so you're you're looking at it from a kind of a bumper sticker ethic, like should we do the best for everyone, or is it all about the means, about what I do? But the VBM considers both the leader and the organization, and it considers also, well, I say theological reflection is about the spiritual, the moral component, not just the ethical component.

Tom DuFore 6:27

I know that 2016 was the big launch of that through Indiana Wesleyan University and through their DeVoe School of Business at the time and launching that and coming up with this model. Ethan, from your perspective, why do you find this model interesting or relevant, especially in part of our conversations?

Testing Nine Traits At Work

Tom DuFore 6:47

When you ended up choosing to go to Indiana Wesleyan for the doctorate program, the VBM wasn't necessarily on your mind when you came in there.

Ethan Slaughter 6:56

Yeah, it certainly wasn't. It had always been a goal of mine to go on and complete my doctorate. And I had just taken over a high-level finance role within a pretty good-sized company. And it's in blue-collar industry. My leadership skills were 100% a wreck. I was not prepared to lead the team that I was hired to lead. And I was so frustrated by that that I decided, you know, really the heck with it. I'm going to go get my doctorate and I'm just going to teach. And the the really funny part is the very first residency that you and I both attended, I I heard about this virtuous business model, and I was especially attracted to the traits of a virtuous leader. And those really spoke to me, you know, things I was not, traits I was really not all that matured in. And so I just decided right then and there that I was going to implement these traits in my own personal life and just see what happened. And the results were were really miraculous. Personally, professionally, the organization I was working for really took off and matured in a lot of ways that they hadn't for the last 30 years. So honestly, it made me very passionate about this and researching why. You know, why are these traits, especially the virtuous leader, so impactful across really all realms of life?

Tom DuFore 8:22

Well, Ethan, one of the things you share in the book is part of your story, you started getting into that a little bit. The accounting team and finance team in a business or in an organization generally doesn't have the best reputation. I can speak from my experience, they tended to be a little hard to work with. And so you walked into this type of department and you decided to implement some of these traits and characteristics described of a virtuous leader, and not only with yourself, but with your department. And what did you see happen? What kind of came out of that?

Ethan Slaughter 8:56

So our residency was in January. And I, like I said, I was not on the same page with my team. They disrespected me. I didn't, I didn't necessarily disrespect them, but we were not meshing well. So I implemented these traits in January. And by April, which would have been my one-year anniversary, so I had nine months of struggling with them. By April, I had meshed with the group. You know, we were seeing eye to eye on a lot of things, and I thought, you know, this is pretty strange. So, and and my personal life had improved as well. I had, you know, really a lot of gains in my personal life. Friendships were blossoming. So I thought there is something to these traits that, you know, I am reflecting on this every day. So I put it in as part of their semi-annual performance review, which we typically did in April. And I said, look, these are the nine traits. And the traits of the leader are respect, reconciling, relational integrity, inspirational, inclusive character, critical thinking, and courageous. I said, look, these are the only nine traits that matter for the next six months until our next semiannual review. I said, so every conflict that we have, every problem that we run across, we're going to view through these nine traits. And we struggled at first, but I would say within 30 to 60 days, we were really gaining a lot of traction within our department. Intradepartmental relations were getting better, the functions were working better together. But, you know, the real gain was the interdepartmental gains. I had several different department heads come into my office and say, hey, whatever you're doing with these people, it's fantastic. Keep it up. Ultimately resulted in the president of the company asking me what in the world I was doing, which I I knew, I knew what I was doing. Not sure, I wasn't sure why it was working. And he wanted me to present at the executive retreat coming up with, and that was in September. So, or August or September. So I I had to do a lot of research. I had probably two months to do a lot of research on, you know, why does this work? I mean, I could tell him the nine traits, but then my presentation would be about 10 minutes long and I'd have to head out. But so that's really when my research on it started.

Tom DuFore 11:08

And being in the thick of a doctoral program, research is front and center. So your research skills were enhanced. Then you have this meeting. What happens from there?

Ethan Slaughter 11:18

So had the meeting, you know, anytime you present something that is that would be equated to improving everybody's soft skills, there's a little bit of apprehension, but I had a lot of allies on that executive team. And so what happened from there is I was invited into the executive team shortly after they were around that same time, was promoted chief operating officer. And really with the objective of let's implement these nine traits organizational-wide and see what happens.

Tom DuFore 11:49

Debbie, from your perspective, you were talking a little bit about how there are lots of different business frameworks that exist out there and how the virtuous leader maybe stands out a little different from others that exist.

Debbie Philpott 11:59

Ethan spoke about the nine traits. Those nine traits are actually built around three domains, and that's professional, personal, and spiritual. So a virtuous leader sets the tone for ethical excellence and within an organization. And among those three domains, professionally, they lead with integrity, they inspire others through a clear vision, and they practice that welcoming diverse perspectives. So that's really important. Their leadership is also granted in results, but also in relationships. That's really important. And they're marked by a respectful and relational approach that builds trust and fosters collaboration. And on the third domain, spiritually, the virtuous leader demonstrates strong character, the ability to think critically in complex situations, and the courage to act in alignment with the core values that they have. When we build around those professional, personal, and spiritual domains, those traits that Ethan was talking about are actually subsumed under those.

Leading Ethically In A Fast Economy

Tom DuFore 12:59

Why might a virtuous leader be relevant in today's business climate?

Ethan Slaughter 13:03

So I've done quite a bit of research, obviously writing this book, and then probably even more so afterwards. But the current business climate, I think, could be, we're probably at the far end of what we imagined capitalism being, or what capitalism was imagined to be, all the way back to Adam Smith. I don't know that he could have envisioned things like generative AI and things like that. So I think that we are at the edge of the horizon. We've been far removed from his two works, uh, Adam Smith's two works on number one, the fundamentals of capitalism, which was the wealth of nations. And then before that, theory of moral sentiments, where he essentially lays out what it means to live a moral life that contributes to the fabric of society. And this model really, I can't think of a better metaphor, but Plato he had a metaphor in his dialogue, Phaedrus, where he describes a three-part being and being composed of a chariot being driven by the charioteer, which is the individual, and a white horse and a dark horse. The white horse being measured and dignified and reasoned, very much likened to uh Adam Smith's impartial spectator. And then the dark horse, which is powerful and wild and unruly, really kind of the it feels like the environment we're in right now where we're just super hyper competitive and everything's going so fast. And the charioteer, we're supposed to hold the reins of of each beast and try to steer this thing as straight as we can without crashing. And so I, you know, I think that the the model is a great playbook on how to keep the white horse contained and and really harnessing the power of the of the dark horse.

Debbie Philpott 14:55

Ethan talked about that three-part, and interestingly, part of the VBM is there is a three-part aspect to it as well in the V-No Do. And that B-No-Do comes from the leadership model that is used by the Army. It's been used by the Army for almost over three sixty years. And key aspects of that is understanding that it really is about the character of the leader, understanding that component of the leader, and understanding the knowledge is the competence of the leader, and the ability to uh not only know how, but to know what to do, so that they're they link their character in knowing the right thing to do and influencing others to do the right thing. And then, of course, there is the do aspect, which is having the courage to take action. And so these three come together. So it's interesting how we see some corollaries, not only in history, but also with the VBM and current leadership practices.

What Makes An Organization Virtuous

Tom DuFore 15:54

Thank you both for sharing. And the virtuous leaders, one half of the model. Let's talk about the virtuous organization side of this, and let's start with just an overview on that.

Ethan Slaughter 16:06

I am not nearly the subject matter expert on the virtuous organization, but it is also three parts broken into social capital, spiritual capital, and economic capital. Each of those have three traits nested under those. So under social capital, there's service, supportive, and sincerity. Under spiritual capital, there is, I might get these wrong, centered, creative, and compassionate. And then under economic capital, there's principled, proficient, and profound. Uh that's just kind of an overview of the organization side of the model.

Debbie Philpott 16:42

Yeah, and how these kind of come together is that you know, a virtuous organization pursues success not just in financial terms, right? It's also in ways to enrich people in society. And so that's a big differentiator. It builds economic capital through principled, proficient, profound actions, as Ethan was referring to, and it really ensures that its performance matches its purpose. That's that's really critical. At the same time, it nurtures social capital by engaging with stakeholders, you know, through being sincere, supportive, and offering meaningful service. And then there's deeper still is the identity is grounded in spiritual capital. And this is through its centered mission, creative approaches, and compassionate practices that have lasting value. Interestingly, Tom, if you don't mind, can we turn the table a little bit in this conversation and ask you about your research? Because you really focused on the virtuous organization.

Measuring Culture With A Scorecard

Tom DuFore 17:41

The virtuous organization, as Ethan had mentioned in the interview, that really called to me. It sung to my heart when I saw that. And I looked at it in thinking that we hear the horror stories of the vicious leader or the unscrupulous leaders out there of some of these famed or infamous stories like Tycho and Enron and a myriad of others that happen out there where you just have these bad actors that are leaders of organizations. And I always thought, what about these department leaders? What about these other folks that are leading these organizations? How are we creating this whole identity, as Debbie said, and this community of people? Because we're a group of people all working together. And so when I thought, well, maybe for someone that might have moral temptations as a leader coming into an organization or being part of it, if there were some virtuous structures through these identities that are created through the virtuous organization, that person might be swayed to better choices or better decisions that are grounded more so in this idea of practical wisdom and organizational, considering social stakeholders, considering financial outcomes, and also considering the alignment of those decisions with the organization's mission, vision, values, and seeing a unified alignment there and finding a harmony between all of those. I think in those instances, you can create an environment for individuals, and we're all, every one of us, we're all flawed. We're we're all imperfect. So we're taking this group of imperfect people. And if we can help create this pathway or direction through this virtuous organization, that for me lit me up and got me excited about this. And so my doctoral thesis really centered on how to measure and assess a virtuous organization. Because in business, we think if we can't really measure it, it becomes hard for a leader or a business owner to want to do something with it. If it's just kind of gets kicked down the road, oh, that's some other theory, oh, that's some academic thing. Part of the purpose of the doctoral program we went to is this idea of applied doctoral research and applying what we're learning to a real world problem, that it's not just some theory. We might be developing theory along the way, but the idea is that it's trying to solve a real world problem. And so the real world problem I sought to solve was how do you measure this? And the ultimate outcome was a virtuous organization scorecard that I developed as part of this to help provide a framework for how you would measure each of these. So I looked at each of those traits or virtues or characteristics within social capital, economic capital, and spiritual capital to say, how do we actually measure this? How would you go about doing such a thing? That's what I put together as part of my research. And when I look at both pieces together, it's not one or the other. And that's really where Ethan and I have really been counterparts along the way in this is I looked at it through the lens of really focusing on this virtuous organization. And he looked at it through the lens of this virtuous leader. And it really paired up in this blend of building this together. So, and ironically, I think is how the model is intended to work

Where To Get The Book

Tom DuFore 21:00

anyway. Let's share with our audience here one of the things we do have available is the book. And you can find that online at Amazon.com, or we've got some free bonuses or freebies available at virtuousbusinessbook.com. So it gives you a quick overview on the book itself for you to purchase a copy of the book as well as to get a freebie or a bonus along the way. So please make sure you go there and check that out, virtuousbusinessbook.com, or just go to Amazon and search for Virtuous Business Model Approach, and you'll find it available for sale there.

Misses Makes And Multipliers

Tom DuFore 21:35

Well, this is the time in the show. I don't want to say it's the hot seat. We've asked every guest now in 300 plus episodes the same four questions before they go. So we're going to ask these same four to you. So let's start with the first question is have you had a miss or two in your career or your journey and something you learned from it?

Ethan Slaughter 21:54

I would say by far the biggest miss of my career was within the first five or 10 years. Years of my career, somewhere in that range, I had definitely developed a position of, I would I call it aimless ambition right now, that I was just doing whatever it took to climb the ladder. It was every man for himself. And full transparency, I benefited from that in the short term, but so many meaningful relationships went to the wayside, both personal and professional, that even in midterm, so I mean, talk about 10 to 12 years into the career, those relationships would have been so impactful to move me into positions where I could be more impactful, even if even if it's just socially impactful. And so that's something I really missed out on was the relationship component early on in my career.

Debbie Philpott 22:42

I've had three careers actually. I've been an HR director, been a controller of a company, and an academia. Referring to my most recent academia, I really underestimated the time it would take to mentor doctoral students and helping them through the process of research and becoming transformed in themselves as a doctor. And so I learned to set clear expectations for myself and for them, helping to build structure support and leveraging systems and even including AI. I've leveraged AI for myself and through the work with my students, and that's really helped a lot.

Tom DuFore 23:19

The next question we look at is the opposite side. So let's take a look at a make or to a highlight you'd like to share.

Ethan Slaughter 23:26

So, I mean, this may seem a little bit on the nose, but this is what I would tell anybody if even I was sitting down at a restaurant talking about makes in my career, but it's absolutely, without a doubt, implementing the these leadership traits of the virtuous business model. Not only did they change my professional path, but they changed my personal life. You know, all like I've I've said multiple times, my personal relationships have gotten so much better, so much deeper and meaningful. But, you know, my my professional life took off as well. You know, as soon as I really steered away from the technical abilities which I have, as soon as I looked away from those and steered my attention toward, okay, let's in biblical terms, let's wash the inside of the cup first, and then we'll worry about the outside of the cup. As soon as I did that, my career just blossomed. Again, promoted straight into a C-level position, was promoted to CFO not that long after that, and really opened my career paths to, I've always wanted to get out of a strictly accounting position. And so now I'm in an accounting adjacent position of as a director of FPA. And so it's it's really allowed me to do kind of whatever I want or pretty close to it.

Tom DuFore 24:44

Oh, that's great. Thank you. And Debbie, how about for you?

Debbie Philpott 24:47

I'll pull from a couple of things. One is HR director. I developed and got board approval for a university to develop a corporate university to allow employees to pick and choose among six tracks of education so that we could really help develop our employees, and that's personally and professionally. It wasn't just locked into work-related kinds of training. And I really am a proponent of helping others become more developed and pursuing their own interests. And then also as a controller, I developed a unique formulation to establish credit among US companies and international companies. That helped our company more than double its multi-million dollar revenue and expanded. We expanded to two locations, additional locations, and we added jobs in the Midwest. And that just really showed me some insight on how we can make great change with just some simple little tweaks in the business.

Tom DuFore 25:42

Well, the name of the show is Multiply Your Success. And we always ask for a multiplier that you've used to help grow yourself personally, professionally, or organizations you've run.

Ethan Slaughter 25:53

For me, it's certainly been education. And I think the the doctorate was not only was it the crowning achievement, which I anytime I speak with incoming doctoral students now, I always tell them, hey, if this is an ego thing, that's not going to be enough fuel to get you through what you're about to go through. You're going to have to find some different purpose other than your ego and you wanted to get this done. And for me, that was diving into the rigor of academic research. That's just such a demanding task that it caused me to simplify things in life that I had previously thought that I had already simplified and focusing on the most necessary tasks. And, you know, I learned that priority, I believe, still is meant to be a singular noun. You're not supposed to have priorities. And actually, I think that the plural use of that word has not been around all that long. I, Debbie, you might know exactly how long, but I think it's a 20th century use of that word that we made it plural, that we're supposed to juggle all these things at once. But obviously, having a hierarchy of things to do is critical, but having the one priority and being able to remain focused on that was something that I learned through education that has really multiplied my success.

Debbie Philpott 27:14

Yeah, I think there's two areas that I would identify, and it really does come from academia, and that includes mentoring and teaching students who have gone on, I mean, just like you, Tom, and you, Ethan, to publish, lead, and innovate in your fields. And to me, that's very exciting and to see that, being able to pass that along through the education system. The other one related to academia too is the development of the DVA content and curriculum, because when you're developing that content curriculum, it lasts long before, you know, I'm actually semi-retired. So it's still in play. And to see students have such great accomplishments through their doctoral program is wonderful.

Tom DuFore 27:55

Well, the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

Ethan Slaughter 28:00

So this may sound a little bit woo-woo, and I promise it's not meant to be, but it's just it's been the result of my reflection on what success means to me. And it's it's really, I have found that success is transcending things like happiness and life satisfaction. It's and it's really climbing a ladder of learning how to be resilient and discovering peace, ultimately acting pro-socially, which is I hope is what we're doing with this book, that we're we're putting out good things into the world and improving other people's lives. And then I guess if the the crowning achievement or the top of success would be kind of learning more or maybe just a bit about the meaning of the meaning of life. Obviously, self-sacrifice and service to others is up there, but but working that into a daily routine, and I'm not really one for routines, but working that into daily life is difficult. So I think being able to juggle all of that and balance and aim myself toward service to others, that is the ultimate success.

Tom DuFore 29:09

Debbie, how about for you?

Debbie Philpott 29:10

You know, Ethan, that just something that stuck me, if I may, when you responded, you know, we speak to that in our book, don't we? We speak to those big questions in life and how those can be worked through through the VBM. So I I really enjoyed your response there. For me, success, it's really more than just personal achievement. I think it really supports what Ethan was saying. It's about honoring God and through how I'm in relationship with Him. That's really important to me. And it's also how I work with mentoring, serving, and influencing others for good, right? So that those two key areas are very important for

Defining Success And Your Center

Debbie Philpott 29:48

me.

Tom DuFore 29:48

It's interesting with what you both just said, too, thinking of the VBM and really the center of the virtuous leader, the center of the virtuous organization. That's a big question that we pose is what is your center? What are you tethered to? And Ethan, you know, a priority, right? It's priority is singular, not plural. And really that's a big focal point of the book. There's a really great chapter. It's kind of right in the middle, right after we get through some philosophy and ethics overview. And before we get into the applied use of it, it's really saying, you know, it's kind of this bridge between those ideas and the application and use in real life, saying, well, before we step into those, what's really most important to you? What is the center that's going to keep you driving? So I think that's a really great way to wrap some of this up. And as we uh bring this to a close, is there something you were hoping to share or get across that you haven't had a chance to yet?

Ethan Slaughter 30:50

Yeah, I think for me, it's, you know, the message I I send to young professionals or just young people in general. You know, right now, one of the passion projects I'm working on is working with late high school, early college students on, I call it life readiness, not necessarily career readiness, but it's just take the time to slow down. You know, this world is going super fast. So slow down, really reflect on what your, again, what your center is, and start to think about how to, how to revolve your life around that center and not be pulled apart by the things of this world. Debbie, how about for you?

Debbie Philpott 31:30

When you asked the question, it made me think about the book, Mark, that is kind of my mantra for this year. And it's create the life you love. And I think VBM helps you to reflect on life, how you're living it, and how it could be lived better.

Tom DuFore 31:44

Very, very well said. And I would just add one thing we did not talk about. The book comes with over 300 questions to spark conversation about this, to talk about it at home, in the office, in a small group, in a mastermind group. There are so many different use cases to just even pick up the book and read one of the essays that's just a few pages. Each essay is at most a few pages, and then each one comes with at least 10 reflective questions to open up dialogue and discussion. So I'd be remiss if we didn't say that. I think the content is fantastic, but I think the discussion is really what we're hoping to prompt out of this is leading to discussion. And Ethan, you describing how your advice to young folks, and Debbie, with what you said there, I mean, I think the book really tries to help what is that fulfillment, that happy life you want to create. So, Ethan, Debbie, thank you so much for being here and sharing the good news of the book with our audience here.

Debbie Philpott 32:49

Thank you, Tom.

Tom DuFore 32:52

Debbie and Ethan, thank you so much for being guests on my podcast and for sharing with our audience here the new work that we've been presenting and putting together in our first published book together called Virtuous Business, a Model Approach.

Three Takeaways And Closing Win-Win

Tom DuFore 33:09

So let's jump into today's three key takeaways. Takeaway number one is when we talked about what the virtuous business model is and why it's relevant. And the thing that we talked about is that there are two key distinctives to this business model. First is that it considers both the leader and the organization, not one or the other, but actually both, and it integrates theology reflection into ethical thinking. Takeaway number two is when we talked about the virtuous organization, and that was really the center of my doctoral research and developing the virtuous organization scorecard, and it seeks to pursue success not only in financial success, but also to enrich the people and the lives at the organization as well as other key stakeholders. And it makes sure that performance matches its purpose. Takeaway number three is when Ethan talked about priority being singular, we were talking about that in terms of figuring out what is your center and the idea that priority is meant to be singular. And instead of having many priorities, we have one singular priority. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win is really about applying the lessons learned and these leadership principles learned through the virtuous business model and through our book. And really, the win-win is going through some of these essays and reading through the reflection questions that coincide with each of these chapters. If you do that, it's going to be a win for you, a win for your organization, and a win for your team at large. I so appreciate you being here and helping support our work and our time and our effort on this book. It's something I have not done a great job of talking about enough to preemptively describe and discuss this, but I'm so glad that we're here. Thanks for tuning in today. That's our episode, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us to BigSkyFranchise Team.com where you can schedule your free no obligation consultation. Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.